Corbyn and Momentum

Ohh I do so agree how precious our votes are to each & every one of us.

Winning elections does seem to be quite a good way to implement your policies though. Otherwise they are just hopeful dreams.

There is, of course, truth in what you say Jalima but I am not a politician or a member of a party so I prefer to seek out what the parties are really about - not what they or their opposition is saying about them. Mine may only be one vote and it may not win elections but it is precious to me.

Corbyn or Lansman?

Front page in The Times

“Fox attacks business over supporting Corbyn”

Blimey, it would seem Corbyn is better at the political game than many like to think he is.

I do not hate Corbyn, I do not like liars and hypocrites, and in my opinion he is both

Just a little bit of logic.

Annie hates those she believes to be liars and hypocrites.
Annie believes Corbyn to be a liar and a hypocrite.
Therefore Annie hates Corbyn.

I thought I was quite logical but I can't follow that logic as Annie has not said that she hates liars and hypocrites, merely that she does not like them.
Therefore it could be possible that she does not like Corbyn but hate is a very strong word which Annie did not use.

Is winning elections all you think is important Annie?
Winning elections does seem to be quite a good way to implement your policies though.
Otherwise they are just hopeful dreams.

I think that compromise is important, perhaps compromising some of your more extreme principles and ideals in order to get elected and at least then you could start to implement what you believe is best for the country as a whole.

In my imagination, which is probably as good as some of the "facts" re bespoke deals, etc., I see a negotiated deal that is not 'the' customs union but 'a' customs union and a negotiated deal which will allow us to use all the limit Free Movement.

There would be a big propaganda campaign to ensure everyone that we would now have free movement of labour and no longer free movement of people.

We would be told that we will now be allowed to make limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health and example of what is going to be put in place will be given.

We will be allowed to require an individual citizen and their family members to report their presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.

We will be allowed to apply proportionate and non-discriminatory sanctions if there is failure to comply.

Etc., Etc.

In fact they will lay out a form of reverse propaganda and, instead of talking of "swarms" our government (whichever flavour is taking this through) will tell us all the rules who could always use and they will show they are putting them in place.

Momentum tweeted that today members are attending a memorial service for the GMB President.

RIP Mary Turner

Speak after work grandad

I think that what Corbyns speech did was to move the debate forward and create a clear difference between labour and the government.

There is of course a difference between Corbyn and May. Corbyn would stay in a customs deal, and May would leave it.

Whitewater, I certainly hope that Jeremy Corbyns view that some accommodation can be found that allows Britain to remain in a "bespoke" customs and free market agreement, but I fear that may be very difficult to negotiate. However I hope I am wrong.

Anyway despite that I am "supposed" to be retired I am in the office today due to our skill shortage (don't get me started on that one) so I had better get back to work (LOL)

Grandad 1945

A question I raise from time to time when the subject arises on various threads concerns the use of the terminology over the Customs Union question. Maybe you might take the time to reply?

Yesterday Corbyn gave his speech where he said-

" Britain will need a bespoke relationship with the EU"

What do you see as the difference between the statement from Corbyn using the term Bespoke Relationship or ' A Custom Union " and Theresa May who has used the term ' A Bespoke Deal' for ages?

2016
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-may/may-wants-bespoke-terms-for-eu-exit-idUKKCN1081QT

"Britain wants a bespoke model for its future ties with the European Union, Prime Minister Theresa May said on Thursday, during a tour of Eastern European allies aimed at securing support in negotiations on leaving the bloc."

Theresa May has spoken of getting a 'Bespoke Deal' for what seems like eons but we know what Michel Barrier has said.

No. No. No!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-michel-barnier-trade-deal-theresa-may-norway-canada-a8115831.html

"Brexit: Chief EU negotiator says 'no way' to a bespoke trade deal for the UK".

No cherry picking!

Pogs, I 100% agree with your above post. What I fear would be that some are trying to pedal the vision that leaving the EU without having a customs agreement would end the free movement of labour and therefore the downward spiral of wages, it would not in my view.

Granted that the movement of low cost agency Labour into this country would be halted, but low cost labour being employed in developing countries Britain signs trade agreements with would still drive down wages in this country.

Not sure that staying in the customs union means continued free movement, certainly this will have to be looked at if we consider staying in the single market. Which I hope we do.

Grandad 1943

" That stated, in developing trade with countries such as India, China and others, we would have to recognise the fact that those countries have workplace regulations and wages well below those of this country. Therefore, a reduction in the United Kingdoms workplace regulations and wages would be necessary if the UK is to be at all competitive in its trading with such countries."

The EU Posted Workers Directive was also an avenue for EU workers to move throughout the EU Member States freely and undercut the wages of the workers of the host nation.

This was a factor in the so called Heartlands when they voted Leave . Some saw there livelihood diminished and or lost their jobs due to the EU Posted Workers Directive and the government irrespective of colour had to accept this happened, also the Unions.

As you said re staying in the Customs Union " then this country will have to accept the free movement of labour the acceptance of which played a major part in the Brexit vote.

With respect I disagree, the speech is Corbyn's stance on Brexit.

a diversion?

I do not take part in slagging off , far too vulgar a pastime

With respect AnnieBach, I referred to Jeremy Corbyns speech at the top of my above posting which would make it a subject for discussion in a thread entitled Corbyn and Momentum, or would you rather continue the meaningless "slagging off" of one another in this thread

With respect, this thread is headed Corbyn and Momentum, there are several threads on Brexit, so really the why's and wherefores of Brexit are off track not the hypocricy of Corbyn or the power of .Momentum

I would then be called a 'stalker' again GGMK2.
You wouldn't want that , would you?

I take no upset you consider I am lying .

As for " Why are you so hung up on what other people believe and what influences them. Don't you have any views of your own?"

Now that does raise a reaction from me , Pure irony.

Hi everybody.
Just to try and bring this thread back to some meaningful discussion, I did feel that Jeremy Corbyns speech in Coventry yesterday (26th February) pointed out very well the dilemma facing Britain in regard to Brexit. Corbyn outlined the problems of a Company such as BMW in the production of the Mini series with some heavy components crossing the North sea or English channel three or four times before final assembly in Britain.

In the above Britain not being in the customs union would be a major disincentive to continuing long term plans for production in Britain for a company such as BMW. However, I do not doubt that should the United Kingdom wish to remain in the customs union, then this country will have to accept the free movement of labour the acceptance of which played a major part in the Brexit vote.

However, should Britain decide not to remain in the customs union and free trade area, then undoubtedly this country will be free to develop trade with other countries outside the European Union. That stated, in developing trade with countries such as India, China and others, we would have to recognise the fact that those countries have workplace regulations and wages well below those of this country. Therefore, a reduction in the United Kingdoms workplace regulations and wages would be necessary if the UK is to be at all competitive in its trading with such countries.

The above would undoubtedly I feel bring about even greater inequality and divisions within this country that may bring about "wholesale instability" with perhaps a further break up of the Union to the detriment of all.

A dilemma indeed, which needs much serious discussion and consideration before we as a nation move further forward in our negotiations with our European counterparts. The single factor that brings forward some outlook in this situation would be that views are being formed across party lines rather than through traditional "tribal party lines" regardless of whatever Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn are stating.

Good leader in the Times.

Will check it out while I get lunch whitewave. Thanks.

Of course I do not expect Corbyn to be a candidate on a Tory list to elect a new leader. What a very odd comment.

It's no more odd that your contrived shock at the names on the list.

^ The only firm stand I notice you take is over ' all things ' Conservative related and I think everybody can see your views for themselves without any pointers from me.^

That would be because I have posted them on many occasions and have just (just before you chose to post this) repeated them yet again. I have nothing to hide POGS but equally I am not wedded to one party or another. I would think that would be the same of the vast majority of the country.

Because they have posted they have.

Either you have proof of that POGS or I am entitled to believe it is a lie.

Why are you so hung up on what other people believe and what influences them. Don't you have any views of your own?

GG MK2

"Why are you making such a thing of those who are Labour Party General Secretary candidates POGS? Your astonishment seems a little odd. When the Tories elect a new leader do you expect Corbyn to be in that list? "

Of course I do not expect Corbyn to be a candidate on a Tory list to elect a new leader. What a very odd comment.