Corbyn and Momentum

I gave up asking questions. I was told I was silly or I should just google it and then humiliated if I couldn't find the particular thing they were thinking of.
That soon stopped me 'asking questions'!

Perhaps it was the wrong type of question - should've asked 'why is Jeremy so popular?' not 'why is social democracy falling out of favour in Europe?'

I wouldn't still be on gransnet if I gave up every time someone told me I was silly!

No point asking a question when you know the answer though Jen. I have not given up on GN at all!

Primrose please don’t stop posting & do it in your own style. Your views are well thought out & intelligent, I don’t believe I have ever read a criticism about anybody from you.
There are those ( they know only too well who they are) who like to keep certain threads between themselves, I can only assume that either they are incapable of understanding another’s opinion or angle , or they don’t wish to & want to keep it a closed shop, if this is the case I would suggest they PM each other !

Quote...MaizieD [snip......What do you think about MomentumGrandad?....snip]

MaizieD, first of all can I emphasize that I am not a member of the Labour Party or a trade union. However, in the early 1980s, I was an enthusiastic member of the TGWU union and in that I was elected as the trade union Safety Rep at my then large workplace and in that i was sent on a one month long full-time trade union organized industrial Safety course by my employer.

I went on to gain further enhanced qualifications and become a senior safety officer with that company and eventually started my own industrial safety company in 2002. A section of the work we secured has been in the tuition of elected trade union safety reps, so, for me it has been back to my roots (LOL)

As I have stated in this thread I have only gained knowledge of the Labour party by way of talking to trade union regional, District and Branch organisers while carrying out those tuition courses. Those officials very often hold elected office in the Labour Party at similar level's to the foregoing.

In conversations with the above people it has become apparent to me that those grass roots Branch/District Officers hold a deep abhorrence of the Blair premiership years and the "soft socialists" as they would put it that brought him to power and supported him through his years in power.

To my mind, those grass roots trade union Branch and District officers are very much Momentum by way of their determination to see a Labour Party that radically represents the basics of the movement at its formation. They are in all probability the organisational engine room of Momentum and now it would seem well established within the Labour Party at District, Regional and now Consistency level.

I have no doubts that they have achieved the above by hard work and using the constitution of the wider Labour movement very much to gain office for their beliefs. Therefore, my feelings are that they should be given a fair hearing at all levels. There is no way anyone can change the direction of a movement the size of Labour without upsetting many within the "establishment" along the way.

After all, in the General Election of 2010 it was being argued that there was not sufficient distance between the two major party's, well, that situation has drastically changed due to the efforts of the above people I feel.

Thanks for that. But do you think they're a good thing or a bad thing, Grandad?

Sorry to butt in but my opinion is that whether Momentum are good or bad is a subjective opinion. If there is GE and Corbyn is elected. (Only a possibility) then is it what it is. It means that the electorate are willing to give the left a try. It isn’t particularly left wing, but certainly more left wing than the last labour government

Sorry to butt in again, but just some thoughts

Ahhh, the sixty four thousand dollar question. In think Momentum is a good thing for the Labour movement and politics in general Britain. As the United Kingdom has become more unequal, plagued by the housing crisis and low pay among other problems, Momentum is providing a radical alterative to established Labour party thinking

So, again yes, a good thing for the Labour party and a good thing for British politics overall

Anyone's opinion is subjective, ww. It's just that there's so much 'anti' on this thread that I was just wondering how less emotional people might view them.

Ooh, Thanks Grandad. Xposted...(as I nipped out to keep an eye on tea)

‘Less emotional’ .... oh MaizieD really!

Something very interesting to me to observe is that Grandad has been given a warm welcome by the very left wing posters ( or Corbynites if they prefer) but that Wally
A lifelong Labour voter is hissed and boohed if he says anything about Corbyn and Momentum that is less than flattering! Make of that what you will.?

Lemongrove, from what I have observed so far I have not found any "very left wing posters" on this forum. Of course, in the eyes of the Daily Mail, Daily Express or The Times they may be viewed as so from their very right wing establishment stance directed by at least one of the tax haven owners

I read this today:

It was his Big Speech on Brexit, the first that Jeremy Corbyn
Had given in a year, so naturally he spent large chunks of it
Talking about the NHS and the Iraq War and nationalising water and how the Tories love rich people.
All Corbyn gigs rely heavily on his greatest hits catalogue, and he wasn’t totally convinced that his new single, Bespoke
Customs Union, would go down well with tradional fans who might have voted for Brexit, so he avoided playing it for as long as possible.
His speech,which his spinners were keen to emphasise would put “clear blue water” between Labour and the government, was more a muddy stream, a string of vacuous, waffly cliches that set out an ill-defined goal of the EU giving Britain exactly what suits us best simply if we ask them nicely.
It was delivered in front of a driverless car.I do love a metaphor.Mr Corbyn has not brought himself to this point.
He has always rather liked the idea of Brexit.
It was a speech full of wind and hypocrisy.He accused Brexiteers of being led by ideology (a charge that nobody could ever cast at him of course) and nobly said that he doesn’t like to make personal attacks, two paragraphs before he accused the foreign secretary of “ a phoney jingoistic posturing”.
He decried the Tories for using soundbites, then deployed them himself. “We are leaving the EU but we are not leaving Europe,” he said, a line that Theresa May often uses.
And he called for a “close and co-operative relationship”; it was unclear how this differed from her “deep and special relationship”.
It appeared he was reading his speech for the first time, which may explain the odd pauses and such slips as “the Brexit brocess” ( wonen not allowed?)and “join us in supporting the option of a new cake —er,a new customs union.”
At the end,Rebecca Long-Bailey his shadow business secretary, took questions from the press, but didn’t seem to know who they were. “The man with the red tie and glasses....the woman with the fetching scarf....that lovely blue jumper over there” she sounded like David Dimbleby on Question Time.Is it really credible that a member of the Shadow Cabinet doesn’t recognise the political editors of Channel 4 News, The Guardian and Newsnight?
The leader dodged all their questions.

This is from ‘political sketch’ by Patrick Kidd (Times)
I know, anathema to some on the forum, but a good writer.?

Grandad .....there are certainly some, and supporters of Momentum and Corbyn are quite left wing by definition.

Anniebach, who has been a lifelong member and voter of the LP is regularly got at on the political threads for not being left wing enough by posters!
All because she will not support Corbyn and Momentum.

True lemon, as was Wally got at, he couldn't support Corbyn or Momentum either.

Lemongrove, politics is a hard occupation and if those within it do not appreciate comments, booing or any other kind of verbal rough treatment they are obviously in the wrong profession. By example, just watch prime minister's question time on any Wednesday lunchtime when parliament is sitting, and that in this country is the pinnacle of political debate.

Also, there is no evidence as far as I am aware of that Corbyn supporters or Momentum have acted outside the constitution of the Labour party or the wider Labour movement in establishing their positions on the various bodies that make up the leadership of the movement.

Only in the eyes of the right wing press that you quote are wrongs perceived that do not stand up to in depth analysis. However, never let the truth get in the way of a good story or vested interest

What are you talking about Grandad ?!
These are not politicians getting verbal rough treatment they are Fellow Gransnetters.Hardly the same!
I always watch PMQ’s btw.
Who has said that Momentum and Corbyn supporters have
Acted outside the constitution of the LP etc etc etc?
Am sure they have done lots ‘by the book’ but the fact remains that they have used every strategy they can to oust
Good, moderate Labour people.
If everybody who is a LP supporter ( not just a Corbyn
supporter) is ok with that then it would be fine you may say,
But actually some are not at all happy about it, and may not vote Labour come the next GE.
The Corbyn speech ( as covered by Patrick Kidd ) isn’t written as a serious ‘in depth analysis’......it’s an amusing take on it.

Rough treatment is not allowed on this forum and I cannot speak for the far left here but politics is not my occupation .

Please do not encourage unpleasantness, many lovely members of this forum no longer post on the politics thread because they could cope with unpleasantness directed at them

Lemongrove, those "good labour people" that you quote have been replaced constitutionally by more "equality good Labour people" in all likelihood, who are more inline with current Labour movement thinking and beliefs. Such is how change is made and how political movements continually evolve.

Also some people including journalists have a very strange sense of humour especially when it comes to protecting vested interests such as tax havens.

Anniebach, please demonstrate to me in my pistings where I have encouraged rough treatment of members of this forum. I have spoken on the verbal rough treatment of those that seek or obtain office in politics and that is something that "goes with the job" and those persons should expect that.

How some members of this forum have been verbally treated by other member before I joined, obviously I would not be aware of. However bullying is something I decry in all its forms

Apologies anniebach, that should be postings above not the keyboard error I made

please demonstrate to me in my pistings
I began to think you were that French policeman from 'Allo 'Allo Grandad1943
then you corrected your pist post
sorry, just couldn't resist ..... don't take offence

and what is wrong with asking questions?

I realise that that is another question.