Corbyn and Momentum

What mud ww?
I don't like Momentum, but that's hardly 'mud'.
Why do you make it personal all the time? Why not engage with the debate instead of the person?

Mud sticks though primrose as you well know.

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

You can tell who reads and takes in the language of the MSM because it is regurgitated on here.

BTW - love your advise primrose about critical analyses.

Let me know when you are following your own advise and I will hopefully hold a sensible debate.

I think most here know which you would turn to whitewave

The discussion about union involvement is interesting.

We have had a poster on here, and as part of his working life has had a lot of involvement with unions and gained considerable knowledge. He says that Momentum has be able to use the structure set up by the unions in order to organise itself nationwide, and has close connections with unite.

There is another poster who is well known to be and exceedingly anti-Corbyn/Momentum, who claims to be the authority on how Momentum was set up.

Given the propensity for anti-Corbyn supporters to grasp at anything including “facts” that Corbyn is a spy and red under the bed, and relaying these “facts” with great authority without clearly verifying any of these “facts” except through biased MSM.

I know which one I would turn to for expertise.

Annie

Smoke and mirrors Primrose ? ?

Thank you nightowl,

So only 18% of party members are under 29 years of age?

No annie only 18% of Momentum members are under 29 years of age. This does not accord with the perception of Momentum held by many GN posters.

I said I had evidence of what? My opinion is based on facts, GGMk2, such as what Lansman has said (and not said) fillings at companies house and Momentum literature.
You could say exactly the same about grandad's opinion as it's based on 'what else could it be'. Don't let your prejudice get the better of your critical analysis.

If anyone is interested in finding facts out about how Momentum came about and what they are hoping to achieve I would be really interested. Otherwise I am out of this thread for the moment as the Corbyn bashers obviously feel it is theirs and want if back.

Other politics threads are available.

because I don't believe they were.

To be honest - so what. You said you had evidence; you didn't. You don't. You just have a set of beliefs. Just like the chap who stands on the corner and tells me of the second coming you have a right to those beliefs but I have a right not to play your game Primrose.

The probably wouldn't mention that the unions were involved GGMk2 because I don't believe they were. When Lansman set up the various 'Jeremy' companies at Companies House, there were no people associated with the unions involved.

I see the Telegraph is still busy selling lies in its headlines. No one can possibly take their Corbyn smears seriously after their lies have been laid bare.
Their journalists do not know the meaning of truth to power and integrity.

Don’t forget Corbyns speech today however you listen to it!!

So only 18% of party members are under 29 years of age?

Sadly, other than the Telegraph, which mentions it in passing, the links do not seem to discuss how momentum was formed or he part the unions played - which is what we have been discussing - so not really relevant but thanks for the effort.

Thank you for the links Primrose.

GGMk2 You need to read the MSM more! It was all over the press in 2015. Would you like more links? There are literally thousands.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/08/jeremy-corbyn-leadership-campaign-new-social-movement-momentum
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11919492/Jeremy-Corbyn-backed-Momentum-group-is-a-threat-to-sitting-MPs.html
www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/895101/hard-left-labour-group-in-drug-shame-as-sun-investigation-finds-coke-in-loos-at-corbyn-bash/

Anyone with a passing interest in politics was informed at the time. There have been threads on GN that mention Momentum from a couple of years ago and possibly earlier.

Lemongrove I don't think it sounds as if the start of Momentum was "clandestine" if it has been openly talked about with a visiting trainer and see no reason to think that money changed hands "out of sight". There have been enough slanderous accusations recently surely.

The usual MSM sources did not print anything about it at the time as it was not of interest to them. If we look back Corbyn wasn't taken seriously so why would the start of a grass roots organisation be. I see no reason to doubt what Grandad was told and what he has shared with us just because we were not informed about it at the time.

Lemongrove, All seats on Labours statuary committees are nominated and then elected. Any member can stand for election if he/she can get nominated. So, where is the dragging in that?

In regard "proof of Unite support for Momentum, if "you" can get hold of any Branch accounts you may find your "required" proof. However, as I requested before, if the Union grass roots members did not help in establishing Momentum, how then did they emerge so quickly and with such organisation into the wider national Labour movement.

Obviously that fledgling movement had considerable support from somewhere, so answers would be welcome with necessary proof?

Day 6:
“New members are similarly left-wing on the state-market dimension, although they are more likely to regard themselves as further left and are certainly somewhat more socially liberal than older members."

So all the old Commies are coming out of the woodwork too then? wink I can easily believe Momentum/Labour attracts the hard left/revolutionary types.

So you believe ‘more socially liberal’ = ‘old Commies’?

Bit of a leap there.

I say clandestinely, because that situation is not out in the open.

Corbyn and McDonnell and Momentum are doing the dragging off to the left.Momentum are getting their people onto any committee going, and it’s their mission to get the LP as left as is humanly possible.All the militant types are back in.
There isn’t any adage of ‘a wink under the table ‘ ...... btw
It’s wink wink, and the under the table bit means money passing hands out of sight.
So, it seems there is no way to verify your claim of how Momentum came into being or that branches of Unite are clandestinely supporting it.Am not contesting what you heard when working, but simply saying that there is no way
to actually prove it.