Corbyn and Momentum

The relationship was lost following the winter of discontent ? It was the relationship which became too one sided ,union side, that caused the voter to turn away from the party 1979 to 1997

Good steady and reasoned post grandad

'There's not a government who could do worse in the world,' whitewave?!! Presumably you include the governments of Myanmar, N.Korea, Venezuela, Syria and quite a few others that come to mind!!! Comparing these governments favourably with ours? How very strange, or are you unaware of how particularly awful they are!!?

Momentum are not affiliated with Unite though, are they?
There was a leaked recording of Lansman saying Unite were going to back them financially, but that didn't happen, after the leak.
No idea where this born from the union movement community branches story comes from - where did you hear it grandad? It's certainly not on either website and never been mentioned by Lansman that I'm aware of. He always said it came from the Jeremy for Leader campaign.

Quote [ The relationship was lost following the winter of discontent ? It was the relationship which became too one sided ,union side, that caused the voter to turn away from the party 1979 to 1997] End Quote.

It is undeniable that the Trade Unions reacted entirely with the wrong policy to the downturn in the economy in the mid 1970s leading to the "winter of Discontent". The foregoing gave rise to a decline in the relationship between the Unions and the Labour Party, which undoubtedly had profound major implications for both organisations in the above quoted years.

The above divisions were cleverly exploited by Maggie Thatcher, who, (while the Labour Party was in a policy wilderness and the Trade Unions in decline) brought forward what many now believe to be the most discriminatory social and industrial policies ever witnessed in the United Kingdom. Those policies are still having an effect on Britain even today, which can be seen in housing, wages and social mobility.

Those circumstances have brought forward Trade Union community branches, Momentum and a growing left wing Labour party with policies that younger "middle Britain" people can associate with.

The foregoing "middle Britain" younger generation would have voted conservative in the mid 1980s to mid 1990s, but by 1997 the fault lines in the Thatcher's policies were beginning to show, hence the election of Tony Blair in that year. However the Blair Labour government was gradually seen by many as just a milder version of Thatcher's policies which would not redress the growing inequalities those policies had brought about.

The Labour Party of today is a reflection of more than four decades of establishment thinking and rule, and in that is found the huge rise in its membership and left wing Leadership. For to be a Conservative you have to have something to conserve. Many in middle Britain cannot even get on the housing ladder or obtain a wage or salary to maintain their families to what they believe is an acceptable standard.

The above are the reasons why Momentum and Jeremy Corbyn have obtained the positions they have

Welcome to GN grandad!!!

Thank you Grandad for that really useful post. Most of us are no doubt aware of the links between the unions and the Labour Party but seeing the in and outs as you have described it adds clarity.

Quote[There was a leaked recording of Lansman saying Unite were going to back them financially, but that didn't happen, after the leak.
No idea where this born from the union movement community branches story comes from - where did you hear itgrandad? It's certainly not on either website and never been mentioned by Lansman that I'm aware of. He always said it came from the Jeremy for Leader campaign.] End Quote

Where did I hear it Primrose, I have indirectly been part of it. Just to give a brief background to myself. I have been involved in industrial safety for the last thirty five years and in that have very often given tuition to elected trade union safety reps. When the Unite union community branches came about I was requested to give tuition lectures to those member even though they did not work in organized workplace's with elected reps.

The rule book of most Trade Unions do not the allow their central or regional administrations to affiliate to any other political Party other than the Labour party. However, the umion branch structure have their own funding accounts and are allowed to contribute to "local requirements" they feel justify funding. Therefore, as Momentum formed out of the community branches they funded (affiliated) to those local Momentum branches and still do where necessary I believe.

I have given industrial safety lectures to Momentum meetings/conferences and have found them very willing to learn for the benefit of their own workplaces. I have had many pleasant pint with them, though not sharing all their views

I am so enjoying this!!

This is fascinating Grandad. I had no idea that it had come about this way and expect many of us didn't either.

of us others

So good to have someone with knowledge of this on here. Please stay around Grandad.

There was something on the radio about the failure of conservatism (if that’s the right term) the other day. How the Conservative party can no longer represent aspiration or the notion of improving one’s lot through hard work. And how the party could be in serious trouble as our generation - and older - die off, because they have failed to help or reach out to younger generations. I can’t remember where I heard it as I was driving at the time and caught it between work appointments.

Nobody else thought this is how Momentum started, because it was founded by Lansman, it is very much his movement.

Why don't Unite explain that their community branches are affiliated to Momentum?
Does Tom Watson know - as he said this was entryism?
How about Jess Phillips? She said she would quit the Union if this happened.

I think you're mistaken.

Over to you grandad

Have never heard that Momentum is affiliated to Unite either, but as you state it as a fact grandad will look into it.
Not that it matters much where it comes from, it is an ultra left wing group purely to promote Corbyn at the expense of the LP which is why so many Labour voters and MP’s hold it in contempt.Their bullyboy ways and treatment of women are particularly awful.

Naturally, supporters of Momentum won’t care two hoots about their tactics, and Corbyn supporters will perhaps look the other way, as long as JC is doing well.

labourlist.org/2017/11/exclusive-another-trade-union-agrees-to-affiliate-to-momentum/

It is, isn't it nightowl. I am so pleased to see that you are happy, Grandad, to say that "It is undeniable that the Trade Unions reacted entirely with the wrong policy to the downturn in the economy in the mid 1970s leading to the "winter of Discontent"." too.

It was the wrong policy even though it is possible to understand why they went in that direction but that was then and this is now and we are to bring the country together. Currently 3 in 4 people don't think the economy works for them, 20% have second jobs and another 20% have considered it. Eighty per cent in work, in a recent survey, expecting to be poorer next year.

These are not the hard statistics of people in or out of work but the feelings of those in work. I am pleased to hear that Momentum comes out of the unions. I have always thought the unions were sidelined and then an attempt made to crush them - crushing, sadly the only real voice, at that time, of the working people.

we are we need

gg it is the community/local aspect that I think people find appealing.

I certainly like the idea whitewave. Waiting to see what others research tells us too.

Quote [primrose...Nobody else thought this is how Momentum started, because it was founded by Lansman, it is very much his movement.

Why don't Unite explain that their community branches are affiliated to Momentum?
Does Tom Watson know - as he said this was entryism?
How about Jess Phillips? She said she would quit the Union if this happened.

I think you're mistaken.] End Quote

I believe you have to understand how the Trade Union structure is organised especially Unite Britain's largest union. That structure is based on its industrial branches, and in that those branches have a large amount of autonomy in how they act and what they do.

The above branches retain between 10 and 25% of the members subscriptions for their own use. On top of that funding the branches can set-up a "branch fund" by agreement with its members which can be a maximum of 15% above standard membership subscription. As all branch leadership is elected and consists of unpaid lay members (Chairperson, financial Secretary and standing committee) and therefore the funds any single branch gathers and holds can be substantial.

As stated the Branches are very much autonomous in their spending of branch funds and only have to provide a balance account to the regional administrations for auditing. Questions cannot be asked by region or central administration unless the branch spending falls outside what is written in the overall union rule book. Though sounding complicated the foregoing has to be the situation as industrial branches are continuously dealing with local employers where funding is often quickly needed for members in a dispute or on disciplinary hearings etc.

If we take a case of the setting up of a community branch in a large commercial district of Bristol, it was the Unite union industrial branches that originally funded the setup of the community branch as the local community had been complaining about a number of issues in regard to the large industrial/commercial estate on their doorstep for a considerable period of time. Many of the local union reps attended the first meetings along with a large number of the local population and it became a great success.

Those forming community branches began to communicate with each other and in that sought out a national structure and that is where Lansman and others became involved. That national structure became Momentum under Lansmans organisation not directly linked to Unite or any other union but still having close links to local industrial and community branches.

Whether Tom Watson is aware of how trade union branches have contributed to the formation of Momentum I would not know. However, if he is not aware then he would be in-line with many of the other "career politicians" in the Labour Party who do not know of or relies the deep history between the Labour party and grass roots trade union members that thankfully is very much still in existence and once again growing.

Apologies for the long answer to your posting primrose but there seemed to be no other way but to go LOL

Well Jezza was burning the evidence about something over the allotment last night.

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/fire-engine-stuck-at-jeremy-corbyn-s-allotment-for-nine-hours-after-responding-to-a-fire-in-east-finchley-1-5405955

That's all very interesting grandad, but I still don't see why you believe the community branches became Momentum or are affiliated to them.

I'm sure plenty of Momentum members belong to Unite, but that's really not the same as a formal affiliation, like the Bakers Union.

Why has no one in the press written about this?

That makes absolute sense because there is no doubt that the structure of all the momentum communities were so quickly formed. It is obvious now that a union could well have been involved.

It certainly seems an inspired idea. Like you grandad I have some reservations but I err on the side of support at the moment as the project seems to have attracted the attention of the young who have appeared to have felt disenfranchised and now seem to understand their potential in the democratic process.

What get's me is I did know about how the LP was created and the arguments at the time about it's relationship with the unions but did not know about this. I am beginning to feel that at least Momentum is picking up on the feelings of the people at the grass roots. Just writing them off as the same as the groups around in the mid 1970s has been a very lazy way of describing them but I have to admit that although I could see that was not the case I didn't find out more about them.

Thanks to whoever started this thread and very much to Grandad. I am not convinced about any of our politicians - never have been although I know what I don't want. I should imagine I am not alone there. I do realise that I will have to try and find out more.