Corbyn and Momentum

Grandad 1943

Thank you but does it answer this question.?

"Why do you think Lansman is standing against against Jennie Formby for the position of General Secretary?.

The close link between Momentum and Unite and the close link both ' personally ' and ' professionally ' between McClusky and Jennie Formby surely could lead to Len McClusky being put in a difficult position and would that not be a peculiar position to put him in as an ally, accomplice ?"

My interest is this. If as you say Momentum was formed by the Unions, albeit by branches of, surely it would be a peculiar situation for Momentum and the Unions to go head to head as to which of them gains the position of General Secretary. They are one of the same as you have alluded to and a point that has been made on threads over time.

McClusky/ Unite is obviously a key ally of Lansman/Momentum they have ** in the same pot so to speak. So is McClusky not being put into a difficult position having to back either Jenny Formby with his close connection to her both politically and of course in their private life and Lansman with whom he has invested equal political effort?

Corbyn and McDonnell have reportedly given their backing to Formby , does that not mean they too have been put into a difficult position of having to choose which baby to keep over the other?

Why? What is to be gained by this challenge for General Secretary between two comrades in arms Momentum and Unite?

The position of General Secretary is an unquestionably extremely powerful position to hold , is it a power play contest between Momentum and the Unions?

Could it cause friction between the two organisations further down the line?

I think it is stretching it to say Momentum was formed by the unions. It followed on from the Jeremy Corbyn for Labour Leader campaign. It has been supported by a number of unions including Unite, TASS, the Bakers Union for example. It is also the case that Unite Community branches do work closely with their local Momentum branch, currently in the Unseat campaign (in Tory marginals), also with things like transport to People's anti austerity march for example. In my opinion, Lansman has applied for Gen Sec so that there is not just a choice from the unions, but also I think because he is personally ambitious

bmacca

" I think it is stretching it to say Momentum was formed by the unions. It followed on from the Jeremy Corbyn for Labour Leader campaign. It has been supported by a number of unions including Unite, TASS, the Bakers Union for example".

That is my summation too but have you read the thread from the beginning as there is a variant thought on Momentum and Union connections from it's inception and some posters are accepting another opinion from Grandad 1943.

That's what has made this thread interesting it is a difference of opinion that has not been mooted before.

I understand Grandad has said there was Unite involvement and that may well be the case at local level. Also it is true that very often union officials also hold positions in Momentum and/or their local Labour Party so sometimes it is the same people working across those organisations if you see what I mean (not sure I've expressed it very clearly). James Sneider who was involved in getting Momentum running speaks of the relationship like this. Momentum also helped local candidates at the last election and worked closely with Labour branches and unions so there is a lot of contact especially at local level

I would agree that other unions have been involved in the establishment of Momentum. However, the Unite union has by far the most extensive regional and district organisational structure far beyond any other union, which is able to interact with the Labour party structure at all levels throughout Britain. Indeed, Labour at district and constituency level often use Unite union buildings for their meetings

By example of the above, Unite just in the Southwest of England has a large Regional office in Bristol which is supported by district offices in Gloucester, Bourmouth, Yeovil, Swindon Taunton, Exeter, Plymouth, Truro and in the Channel islands. Those buildings and the organisational structures within them often are a great asset made available to "cash strapped" local Labour Parties. Local lay activists within Unite also often play a leading organisational role in those districts and constituency Labour parties.

In the above is to be seen why those lay activists so came to despise Tony Blair and later Gordon Brown, for they would never acknowledge the role those activists played in the Labour party and would all too often it would seem try to disassociate himself and those around him from them and the trade union movement.The Blair years also seen district and constituency Labour parties treated with the same disdain by its own leadership with candidates for Parliamentary seats imposed on constituency parties from central office.

Many felt that changes to that authoritative structure could not be made from within the Labour party, hence following the defeat in the 2010 General Election the search began for a leverage from outside the party and in time Momentum came to be that leverage. Of course activists from other unions have played a large role in bringing about radical change in the Labour party, but all have very much relied on the Unite unions district and Regional infrastructure to accommodate their efforts.

I believe in the foregoing is to be found why Jeremy Corbyn is supporting Jennie Formby for the position of General Secretary to the Labour party, for to do otherwise would risk once again alienating those grassroots that his continuing realignment of Labours position so much relies on. Len McLusky is also treading the same path as Jennie Formby has enjoyed a good developing relationship with the Labour party at the grassroots level from her position of political organizer for the Unite union.

In short, she is the foremost grassroots pillar of strength and support and who they wish to see in the position of General Secretary.

Grandad, I'm sorry if I've given the impression that I was disagreeing with what you've said because that isn't the case. I was just trying to explain that it's more complex than saying Unite formed Momentum. In my local area we receive a lot of support from Unite the union, and Unite Community branches have worked closely with Labour activists and Momentum. We've also had practical support from GMB. I'd agree with you that it is very positive to see how people are coming together

bmacca, I agree that their have been a huge number of activists join together from throughout the wider Labour movement to bring greter democracy to the Labour party.

However I am beginning wonder if Momentum are now finding themselves in the same position as UKIP, in that they have achieved what they were brought into being for and power now passing back to the more established structures to compleat the change?

Perhaps we shall see if the above is the case with the election of the General Secretary.

Grandad, you may have a point but I think there is still some way to go to ensure more democracy and involvement of a wider group. Some people are put off by Labour Party rules re branches, meetings etc so although they're members they prefer to be involved with their Momentum branch. I think if we all continue to work together and spread the positive message in our communities then hopefully things will change at the next election

If Lansman is not chosen for the position (Gen Sec) then I expect Momentum ( Lansman) to put a lot of pressure on
The LP to widen the ‘vote’ so that he has another crack at it in the future.
It could be though, that he will be now sidelined by Unite having done the job for them ( almost) of getting the LP moved as far as possible to the left.That would be poetic justice for him.

I thought the Labour Party was always democratic. What is meant by saying that is has become more democratic? What were the undemocratic bits?

What what were the undemocratic bits, Tony Blair & Co

Grandad 1943

" However I am beginning wonder if Momentum are now finding themselves in the same position as UKIP, in that they have achieved what they were brought into being for and power now passing back to the more established structures to compleat the change?"

So does that answer at least ' part ' of my questions to you?

Why? What is to be gained by this challenge for General Secretary between two comrades in arms Momentum and Unite?

The position of General Secretary is an unquestionably extremely powerful position to hold , is it a power play contest between Momentum and the Unions?

Or are my questions not easy to answer, I honestly do not know what to think as to why Lansman/Momentum is is competing with McClusky /Unite.

Is the love affair starting to strain?

the Blair government was not undemocratic, no Momentum and the unions were not in control of the government now we have a bun fight with Momentum and The Unions, sod the party members who are not supporters of Momentum and whilst supporting unions not wanting them to regain the control they had over Wilson and Callaghan.

pogs, Unite are the strongest body of influence within the Labour party structure. Len McCluskey and his General Executive would most definitely not want to see that mantle pass to Momentum or any other organisation. I believe that McCluskey feels he has a good personal relationship with Jeremy Corbyn and Jennie Formby is a high ranking member of staff at Unite.

My feelings are that even if it ruins the Unite relationship with Momentum he would not want anything to change the above and he probably feels he will carry his General Executive and the grassroots with him if the relationship with Momentum does take a downturn.

The only thing that could stop McCluskey and the Unite progress would be if other trade union reps on the Labour party National Executive voted for Lansman if they are not willing to see Unite gain even more influence in the highest reaches of the Labour party.

I think there has been problems in the past about democracy in the Labour Party under Blair, one example being parliamentary candidates being imposed against what CLPs want. Another is that it is only recently under Miliband that we got one man one vote. Blair also silenced voices against the Iraq war. I would have thought any movement which encourages greater involvement from a wider group of people should be welcomed. There are a lot of Labour members in my area who don't support Momentum but they are equally as involved as those that do

There's a facebook group called We Support Jeremy Corbyn which has twice as many members as Momentum. They are supporting Jenny Formby.
Momentum only has 35,000 members, so why is everyone scared of them?
In fact many of the WSJC members may also be Momentum members, and will have as much ability to affect the voting for the general secretary.

Good point, bmacca.
I wonder how many of those MPs who are worried about deselection were imposed from the top.

Blair did not silence voices over Iraq, some seem to have forgotten those who opposed . I await the claim again that
Robin Cooke was murdered on that mountain and Gaynor lied and the paramedics who tried to save him were just plants and the hospital lied when they announced he had suffered a heart sttack.

Why did we go to war against Iraq, then, Annie?
I am sure you can use your imagination for that as much as you can about Robin Cook.
That's actually quite sick, by the way.

I have no idea what you're talking about in respect of Robin Cooke, Anniebach.
durhamjen, I think there are a few who have always had a fractious relationship with their CLP and members, and if there are trigger ballots for re-selection at the next election, then they may well struggle to get support. This has nothing to do with Momentum by the way, for those that have implied that Momentum somehow controls MP selection.

Grandad 1943

Thank you for your reply . I especially agree with you on this point-

" Len McCluskey and his General Executive would most definitely not want to see that mantle pass to Momentum or any other organisation."

All I will say is I remain intrigued as to why Lansman /Momentum and Formby/Unite are vying for power however .

Unite will always be in the frame for General Secretary and it would surely be obvious Unite will do it all it can to get their nominee into position. The very close relationship between Unite /Momentum / Corbyns Office would surely mean they are all in constant contact, dialogue etc. with each other and I wonder if they agreed behind the scenes to put up candidates from both organisations or are there cracks showing in the comrades allegiance ?

Time will tell.

PS I was sorry to see Gerrard Coyne loose to McClusky I thought Coyne came over as a decent Union man .

bmacca, I was repeating a wild claim made when Robin died, he had resigned as leader of the house in 2003 because he disagreed with the invasion of Iraq, some anti Blair idiots put these claims on the internet in 2005

Are you implying that McCluskey isn't a decent union man?

durhamjen

I am implying nothing.

I am however stating in my opinion Gerrard Coyne is a decent Union man.

You do try hard don't you.

McCluskey is a decent union man, and he won, so I'm pleased about that.