Corbyn and Momentum

But are there any willing to fill that centre or are we going to ding dong between the two for decades?

Are there any willing and who can Jalima? Personally I have a feeling that FPTP will always create swings. PR, because of the need for coalitions seems to generally, but not always, remain centered. At least that is what I have always thought but I wonder if anyone has research it?

research researched

GGM2...oh dear, it seems that you could start an argument in an empty room.
Ad hominems, civil disagreements, fights.

Philip Hammond is sat on the front bench just about every week at PMQ’s.

McDonnell is sitting on the front bench just about every week at PMQs.
He doesn't always sit next to Corbyn, though, allowing for people like Starmer and Thronmberry to sit there, depending on the questions he is going to ask.

Thornberry, I mean.

Then he must have a cloak of invisibility, because I have looked at the front bench many times.Perhaps it’s his superpower?

Or he keeps his head down.?

I think they're all just busy on twitter shouting at each other at the moment.
Probably because of this

"One of Jeremy Corbyn’s most loyal supporters has called for an end to Labour’s historic links with trade unions, claiming they are “actively opposed” to grassroots party members.

NEC member and Momentum director Christine Shawcroft risked a huge row after declaring that union barons and their allies “stick it to the rank and file members, time after time”.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-should-axe-its-trade-union-links-momentum-backed-nec-member-christine-shawcroft-declares-jon-lansman-jennie-formby_uk_5a9fbf21e4b0d4f5b66bd0f2

I think some will find this interesting. It is very long so I will split over a couple of posts but it is an interview that was on 5Live today.

Owen Jones, on 5Live said:
It's cause horror within Momentum's ranks I should say. They have issued a very, very urgent clarification saying that in no way this sums up Momentum's position." He also added "It was on Facebook. Christine Shawcross, a very long standing activist, I've known her myself for about 20 years or so, but this certainly doesn't represent certainly what Momentum think. What unites Labour left and Labour right, as a kind of sacred article of faith, is that Labour is the political expression of the Labour movement. That's why it's called the Labour Party. It was founded as that political voice and that link is absolutely the foundational principle. Of the party, it was actually New Labour types that ended up floating the severing of the link back in their hay day.

Asked what it says about what is going on with the thinking in the Momentum mind now that Christine Shawcross has rowed back from it now, Owen Jones added:
Momentum, during the election, worked very closely with unions, not least unite. They were based in TSSA, one of the trade unions; that was their head quarters. They've done various videos, for example about McDonald's, about unionising workers so actually the trade union ethos is absolutely at the centre of Momentum. They wouldn't exist without trade union support in the first place.

He went on to say:
I think what you're seeing though is, there is, in the struggle for the General Secretary of the Labour Party, which is what this has been about, you've had Jennie Formby - Unite, very long standing activist, very close to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, very experienced in terms of organisational abilities, very much on the left and then you've got Jon Lansman for Momentum, and the difference their is that he's a Bennite by tradition. They put member led party democracy at the absolute core of what they do. I think what we'll do is see Jennie Formby become the General Secretary, I think that's almost inevitable now.

What you've seen, in terms of the struggle though, and it is between two slightly different traditions of the Labour left - I know it look a bit "People's Front of Judea" is actually the opposite of that. The left feels so hegemonic within the Labour Party now. They feel the right is so marginalised and has so little chance of coming back and taking over the party that they are free now to struggle and assert each others differences. So Momentum can't be portrayed as the plaything of the Leader's Office at all any more they just asserted their independence in this.

There was then a comment from the other guest Lucy someone - I'm afraid I didn't catch her name - that whether the unions should continue to have influence or whether Labour should look to become a member led party would continue to be a central debate. That is what many people in Momentum want to see.
They want to see one member, one vote on policy issues, they want to be able to vote on more personnel, Jon Lansman himself has said he would like to see the General Secretary elected by the entire membership next time. Momentum's ranks are swelling; they themselves think they will have more members than the Conservative Party within a few years. I think a lot of the younger, enthusiastic people that are new to politics and have been really swept up in Jeremy Corbyn's rise and in Labour's ascendency in the past two years have been galvanised by this idea of handing power back to the grass roots. I think for them the sort of slightly archaic traditions of Labour and the bureaucracy and way in which the unions have traditionally held influence – I think will be at odds with some of the newer constituents of the party.

Owen Jones commented that ironically one member on vote was added as a sop to the right of the Labour Party, but without it Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't be leader. He added that he thought there would be an attempt to reconcile. He felt there is lots of talk, both with Momentum and Unite about having a united left front, that this looks very embarrassing sort of squabbling, that the right-wing media think it's all terribly amusing. He thought you would now see them asking how you can democratise grass roots democratisation of the sort Momentum and Jon Landsman champion as well as having that trade union base of the Labour Party.

Any errors that you can't work out - shout and I will check.

All I glean from Owen Jones comments/opinion is previous posts have said much the same.

A question that has been raised about the closeness of Momentum/Unite is -

"Are there cracks showing in the comrades allegiance ?"

I think the answer is getting more like Yes.

That is an opinion by the way before my post is challenged as non factual or I am telling anybody what to think.

I don't think "All I glean ..." could be seen as you telling anyone to think anything POGS. However, I didn't hear it like that but I expect we all take different things from it.

I was interested to know a little more about where Momentum stands and they certainly seem, from what I have read/heard elsewhere as well, to want to be very much a grass routes organisation. I must admit I find some of the organisation of the LP "slightly archaic" and the idea of the grass roots organisations that the members of Momentum are setting up in some areas is interesting.

I also find the comments about the membership of Momentum by comparison to the Conservatives interesting. The Tories have always had an autocratic organisation - very much top down. One of the advantages of being out of power is you can make changes to your party which you cannot do while you are in government.

routes roots

Primrose

I wonder what Ann Black makes of Shawcrofts comment ?

There could be a few regret not backing her for the new chair of the National Policy Forum in time maybe.

All getting interesting, isn’t it?

I had noticed that over time, Owen Jones is not as keen on Momentum as he formerly was, and this does come out in interviews.Nor does he seem quite as madly keen on Corbyn either.

I didn't see that either Lemongrove. Perhaps we all see what we want to see to some extent. Owen Jones, although left wing, is a journalist and was trying to explain what was happening I thought - he was a talking head on a radio programme but perhaps I missed something you heard Lemongrove.

I never noticed that either about Owen Jones. I notice he is in the group advising about GLBT issues.

Who needs unions anyway?

evolvepolitics.com/hundreds-of-angry-workers-took-over-power-station-in-protest-against-unscrupulous-bosses-and-they-just-won/

This is a nuclear power station by the way.
Holland are handing out millions of iodine prescriptions to their population because their nuclear power stations are old and might fail.

Christine Shawcroft has withdrawn her comments, and said she did not mean what she said about the unions.