Corbyn and Momentum

I think many people think they were attracted to the LP but were actually only attracted to the Blair model, Trisher. To me that seemed hardly the Labour Party at all but it was and people had to accept the changes then or leave and I don't suppose it is any different when it changes back to its roots. Hopefully the leadership and members will have learnt much along the way.

Personally I don't want the unions to control government - although we may need a shift towards it to rebalance things from the Alt-right but I don't want the powerfully rich to either. I want a balance - as they have in many other countries. I certainly do want worker representation on boards in companies, etc., probably similar to the German version. That seems to have worked for the good for them.

If, as the experience and knowledge Grandad has kindly shared with us seems to reveal, Momentum has come from grass roots unionism, I feel interested in finding out their aims and more about how they hope to achieve them. More interested than I have been in the past so would welcome more knowledge from anyone who has it in this area.

I agree with the concept that the Blair model attracted people GGMK2 and subsequently repelled many with the Iraq war, but I am interested in Annie's Labour origins. She has often posted about her connections, but seldom praises anything the Labour Party has done (apart from the Blair years)
I don't think there is any prospect in reality of the unions controlling a government. I think there is real evidence thatte rich and powerful control the Tory party and therefore effectively Mrs may and her government.
I agree about Grandad's posts-interesting and informative.

Quote Primrose [ So when these local branches add up their spending and add it into the main Unite expenses, does that make up the whole of the accounts of Unite the Union grandad?
Or do the local branches account separately?] End Quote

Not sure on the above Primrose. I have only gained the knowledge of the Trade Union structures that I have by dealing with them by way of the educational tuition courses (industrial safety) I have given and in that talking to the Branch Secretary's etc.

However, i am aware that when a person joins a trade union they are placed in a branch related to the workplace or industry they work in. Most subscriptions these days are by online payment which is received by central office, but allocated as a "branch receipt".

In the above, central office administration is deducted, along with region admin etc. The remainder (between 10 and 25%) is placed in the members branch account fund, which are separate to the main accounts being setup in individual bank accounts and maintained by the lay Branch secretary and other officers in their entirety.

I had to learn all the above as my company has to be sure who to invoice when carrying out tuition courses, be that region, district or branch. However, we have always found them to be very quick in payment with the Branch Secretary's often giving you a cheque before you leave when courses have been organized by there branch.

Mind you, the Branch Secretary and Chairperson will often then expect you to buy their beer for the rest of the evening on such occasions.(LOL)

Trisher this thread is about Corbyn and Momentum not me.

Thank you so much grandad your measured tones and knowledge are so welcome.

Silence often speaks louder than words, thank you Annie

A certain poster gets very agitated if I say anything about me

Silence is golden Trisher

Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer- Mohammed Ali

Grandad, how do you know that money is given from Unite branches to Momentum then and that money 'can be substantial' when it's totalled together?

You're writing as though you know this, as you were indirectly a part of this, not that you're hypothesising.

Good answers don't concern me Trisher, just honest answers

Or no answer at all Annie

Just think if you were a politician and being interviewed, when they avoid a question it's usually because they know they are wrong and they don't want to lie. Are you any different?

I haven't squealed - your harassing me and hidden behind a glass door Trisher

This is a chat forum trisher, not a political interview!
It's really not good to keep hounding people for details they don't want to disclose, especially if they are feeling that you are harassing them.

Quote.... primrose [Grandad, how do you know that money is given from Unite branches to Momentum then and that money 'can be substantial' when it's totalled together?

You're writing as though you know this, as you were indirectly a part of this, not that you're hypothesising.] End Quote.

I have gained the knowledge of how Branches spend their financial resources simply by taking to the branch officers during lunch or coffee breaks or on an evening while the education courses are taking place.

Very often branches will group together to spread the cost of organising education courses between several of them, especially when they are to take place over several days or even a week. It has to be remembered that these people (lay branch offices) are often "out on a limb" with their employers for organising the union in their workplaces.

In the above, they are always persons of strong political opinion, which in any conversation they will not hide. Therefore, they will not refrain from telling anyone of their support for such organisations as Momentum or even the Socialist Workers organisation etc.

It has to be remembered that anyone can express their opinions on a forum such as this in assurance their can be no real comeback. However, it is an entirely different position to express to your employer that you feel he his acting improperly, as in doing that, those expressing such views can often find their " exit through the door" being engineered.

In the above, I have learned to have great respect for "shop floor trade union activists" as they always stand rigidly behind their workplace and political beliefs I find. Their views are often not my views, but to meet people who stand up for their beliefs in the way those people do will always command my great respect and I would hope the respect of a great many even if they do not share their views.

grandad, I know what you mean. It's simply there's a big difference between saying some people I know from Unite support Momentum and saying that Unite branches financially support Momentum.

Same as there's a difference between saying some people I know from the branches are Momentum members and that Momentum grew out of the union movement.

Just trying to get clarity - especially as some posters are now believing that Unite is somehow affiliated to Momentum through this financial arrangement.

So the long and short of it is the person in the pub said that their branch gives money to Momentum?

I think you are now cross questioning someone whose opinion and knowledge has been welcomed by many in the same way you were decrying a short while ago Primrose. Grandad has told you what he has learned and the circumstances he has learned them in. You are at liberty to think something different but you are getting very close to challenging the veracity of another poster who, in my opinion, has been very careful only to express what they have discovered to be true while explaining the limitations of their knowledge.

Primrose is discussing something said in a post, she has not asked the person which party they vote for, big difference GG

Primrose is trying to get to the truth of the matter, nothing more, nothing less.
There is nothing I can find through google on this.
Grandad is as welcome on this thread as any other poster, and has obviously met a lot of trade union people, but it is still not one hundred per cent a surety that the branches give money to Momentum.
I could well imagine that they do, but that isn’t the same.
Be that as it may however, Momentum and it’s cult of Corbyn pose a danger to the LP as a whole and councils up and down the land, and to LP MP’s.

Quote..primrose [snip....So the long and short of it is the person in the pub said that their branch gives money to Momentum?....snip] End Quote.

Primrose, it would not be just a "person in a pub". Those people are persons I have worked alongside over the course of a week, several days or maybe just one day on different occasions. They are the persons who sign the cheques (or these days make the electronic transfer) to my company and in that I have got to know a number quite well.

I can see no reason why they would state what is not, especially when it comes to making donations to Momentum or any other political organisation, as that is something which others would wish to hide.

Among trade union activists I believe it is widely recognised there is a high level of core support for Momentum with many holding office within that organisation and also within their trade unions. To those, Momentum is now an accepted part of their wider Labour movement and I certainly have no doubts that financial support is made by way of the channels I have described.

After all, why would they not want to do so, it is within their trade union rules to do so in regard to branch expenditure and therefore those subscriptions are I believe undoubtedly made.

Anyone who stands back in the knowledge of the trade union structure would realise that the evidence of financial support among grassroots activists who control the branches is indisputable, for how else did Momentum grow so rapidly and with such soundly built widespread organisation.

Blimey! As grandad has had years of teaching union members industrial safety, I'm sure he's handled a few characters a bit more fearsome than a granny on a chat forum!
grandad - if you find me too scary to handle, just let me know. I'm always happy to apologise if someone believes I've overstepped a line.

On a lighter note, has anyone told the Communists that the Labour Party is nothing to do with them?

Blimey indeed!
Not surprising though, is it? Communists feel that Corbyn is someone they can do business with.

So left of centre MP's and party members are having to accept Momentum and Unions working /plotting together, frightening isn't it , plus the Unions have soooo much money to pour into Momentums pockets not surprising they can bus members around the country . And heaven knows who is bank rolling the communist party .

Much as Tony Blair plotted/worked with right wing activists to ensure his election after the death of John Smith then?

Annie not frightening per se, but to you