Corbyn and Momentum

Thanks for that P65. We do need a well informed non-ideological debate sbou5 the rail system. There must be lessons from other countries ( not that that always helps) . There must be various models that are not wholesale one or the other. My local station has trains from two rail companies and Network Rail of course involved and it is really ridiculous how various problems get shunted round the three organisations ( plus of course the private company that runs the car park). This has to be a nonsense and increase costs

I've just been listening to the news quiz. Andy Hamilton made some reference to Corbyn not being intelligent enough to be a spy.
It got me thinking: would I be more offended to be accused of being a spy, or, being thought to be too stupid to be a spy.
For me, it would be the latter.

You have to go to Cambridge to be a proper spy?

Yes, Cambridge is definitely a recruiting centre.....or was!
Even more than Oxford.
Helps if you speak Russian or Oriental languages.

What do posters think of the hounding out of the General Secretary of the LP Ian McNicol by Corbyn supporters?
This is how they work, like your ‘dark forces’ whitewave
They oust anyone deemed not far left enough.

Primrose65 The privatisation people talk about seems to focus on the train operating companies, like Virgin. Unfortunately, these are not the parts of the system that cost money - they make the government money. From the ORR

For the seventh year in a row, train operating companies (TOCs) paid more (£763m) to government in premium payments than they received in subsidies
Is this money actually paid or just pledged?
On the East Coast line for instance the government will not get the money pledged because the company is pulling out. Effectively removing itself from a contract which should have brought over 3 billion for the government but only brought just over 2 million. You might wonder why there wasn't a substantial charge for withdrawing or failing to provide a service, but then you look at Stagecoach shares which rose a massive 12% when the agreement was announced and you realise this serves the interests of shareholder and not the public.

Momentum are pleased to announce that Bradley has agreed to apologise for his libellous tweet and send a donation to Mansfield food bank.

His full apology can be found on FB

I need case you can’t find it
pbs.twimg.com/media/DWzeuQsW4AEilom?format=jpg

The General Secretary is an incredibly important role in the LP and it stands to reason that as a leader you would want that job filled by someone you felt was ‘on side’ - you’d be mad not to. I knew a GS once who bit the dust after displeasing his master. This is just how politics works isn’t it? In fact lots of organisations to be honest. He’ll do all right for himself and he’s a big boy who will have used this ta tic himself in his climb up the greasy political pole.

Tactic

Good news about B.B.- he’s got a lot of growing up to do as I expect has been forcefully relayed to him from above.

The trouble is, these same tactics are being employed in every area where Momentum activists are hounding out good people, not for being bad at their jobs, not for not being a solid Labour councillor etc, but for not being an avid Corbyn supporter......the cult of the man, not the LP.

whitewave you sound as if you are a great Momentum supporter, so I ask, don’t their methods disturb you at all?
Lansman is a Communist as I expect are most top people in the organisation.Getting Corbyn into power is only the first step along the way for them.Already, I suspect, Corbyn cannot do or say much without their approval.

You are making announcements for Momentum whitewave?

I do respect honesty

I’m not being an apologist for these tactics - I’m just saying that it’s how politics operates - it happens across the board but because of the very different organisational structure of the Conservative Party it is much easier for it to happen behind closed doors. Momentum candidates are not having a clear run in reselection contests. I’ll try and find the figures for you to demonstrate this - and if I lived in an area where there was a Labour MP/councillors I could join the party and actively go to meetings and use my vote in any reselection battles. It’s the activists wot win it and so the only answer is to join in to help influence the direction of travel. But if I were a Conservative I would be worrying far more about my party getting its act together so that it presents a united front ( this would include throwing BJ off a cliff). Those 62 MPs whodigned the letter the other day are a tiny bit of a problem too

Who signed?

But the disunity in the Conservative Party about Brexit is hardly the same as what is going on in the Labour camp, regarding Momentum.
Labour is as disunited over Brexit, but their main worry is the far left direction that the party is going in,a relentless march to the left which may well be in tune with LP members but very likely not the electorate.
It’s something that is only going to be resolved in a few years with a GE as to what way it goes.They will either get into power or the whole far left thing will dissolve.

Its interesting to compare the two methods by which Labour and Conservative select their leaders and both raise issues of the respective power of the parliamentary parties. The way the Tories do it requires very very careful manipulation of how you get down to the final two as this choice then goes out to what is a very small number of current members. However, the Tory MPs do have I think more power than the Labour MPs to whittle down the choice presented to the membership - whether that’s good or bad thing will depend very much on whether you’re an MP or just a party member. The Labour Party’s system as I’m sure you know is much more complex, the members are given a wider choice and their membership voting structure is quite different. If JRM ever ended up in the final two: he’d be elected wouldn’t he because of the demographics and characteristics of the current Tory membership.

As a result of all the ridiculous posts on this and past threads I have decided to follow Momentum on FB and twitter etc and relay their comments in order for a tiny bit of balance to be struck.

I haven’t made my mind up one way or the other regarding Momentum. I have looked and can find no evidence of the sort of outrageous suggestions being made on here. However I do have an open mind and will be quite prepared to say so if my initial opinion proves to be wrong, which is that it is a left wing movement trying to ensure labour and its policies are taken to a wider audience than simply the right wing media reading population.

It is no good anyone now screaming as usual about reds under the beds etc, as we have heard it all before, and we know from whence it comes and the agenda it is following.

I want to rise above all that nonsense and see for myself.

Who knows I might even go to some meetings once it warms up

Both parties have their own problems and splits - it’s not just Brexit: as major as that is, Think of Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston compared with JRM and IDS. They have major differences about the type of party and policies they want but everything is so distorted and swallowed up by Brexit at the moment that there’s no space for these debates. And I do think that somewhere along the line you do have to factor in the biased press coverage that JC gets. Look at what they did to Kinnick and yet he was incredibly brave in fighting Militant.

If Corbyn could be elected then anything can happen!
Labour never intended that to be the outcome and some MP’s backed his name just to put a very left wing name forward for balance.They kicked themselves afterwards.
JRM may well be elected in that scenario, but would he end up in the final two?

ww, I'm not sure that's what the gransnet forum is for - someone actively monitoring and copying PR posts from a political movement onto forums. We're all quite capable of finding out what their PR message is without your intervention.
You're not rising above anything - you're saying you're going to actively promote Momentum even though you don't support them.
I'd check this approach with GNHQ.

whitewave ....where are’ all the ridiculous posts’ on this thread? I think it is a well balanced thread overall, much more so than any other presently on this forum.
There is no need of Momentum ‘pronouncements’ as if you are their activist on GN, and it would be better to put your own views.
What ‘outrageous suggestions’ are being made on here?

How did I guess that is exactly what would happen primrose

It simply took much less time in your intention of preventing freedom of speech than I thought.

I do not represent Momentum any more than I represent the Labour Party but it should not prevent me from repeating what I have read and which is for public consumption on social media.

Shame on you

It’s a truth that Momentum are assiduously weeding out any person in the LP, no matter how good or loyal they are to the Party, and replacing with their own ( loyal to JC and Momentum.)
Now, you can agree with their methods and alignment or not, but you can’t say it is an ‘outrageous suggestion’ because it is exactly what is happening.

Ben Bradley’s grovelling apology
pbs.twimg.com/media/DWzejZ7W4AAxOsy?format=jpg

Guido Fawkes tweeted that Bradley publically confirmed that he is a halfwit.