Corbyn and Momentum

Much then as Blair "assiduously weeded out" anyone with left wing views in the LP. The difference being of course that his was a re-organisation from the top down done with the able assistance of Peter Mandleson and Alistair Campbell. This is being done by grass roots activists. Of course Blair didn't even limit his interference to the Parliamentary party, he tried to stop a left wing Labour Mayor of London, but failed miserably. You can't say it didn't happen, it did.

trisher that Is why Momentum claim to be democratic, by continually getting feedback from members. I would very much like to find out the truth of their claim and see if it stands up.

There's a massive difference between commenting on a thread relevant to the discussion, sharing your own views or something interesting that you've found - which is what I think the forum is - and saying you are going to follow Momentum on FB and twitter etc and relay their comments.
Becoming a Momentum bot has nothing to do with freedom of speech!

Within all belief systems there is a spectrum of perspective and, because of this, there will always be arguments around what their belief actually is.

It is surely important to consider the "extreme" and "moderate" views in all parties in order to understand them. Each party (or religion) will have its own way of dealing with this. The older ones tend to cover-up and deal with issues behind closed doors - the party often comes before the policy. The younger ones tend to be more out in the open, more democratic in their procedures with the policy often coming before the party. Because of this the more open systems are often in receipt of easy, unthinking attacks while the older ones tend to fall from grace because of the discovery of a cover-up.

I haven't come across a party yet, it MPs or its adherents, that is made up of saints. This makes me feel, personally, that attacks on parties, or people within them, are best ignored. Policies are what will change our lives not one or two transient members of a party.

Let’s leave it to GNHQ I shall abide by whatever they say.

I have no wish to discuss it with you further as it is utterly pointless as I disagree totally with your interpretation of my actions.

Trying to find out more about a political movement in the U.K. which will soon have more. Followers than the Tory party and trying to strike a balance with the biased views being posted on this thread by posting their tweets. cannot possibly be me proselytising for Momentum any more than any one of us post anything else, like links etc etc. You are simply trying to shut me up.

Most people don't consider politics as a religion or even a belief system. I don't think your analogy really works with respect to openness though. Is there a young religion you were thinking of that's more open or democratic? All the ones that spring to my mind are pretty much cults, where people need to be unprogrammed to fit back into society.

It seems to me that other people like annie and lemon know more about Momentum than I do, as they are constantly posting about them with great authority

No whitewave, but is it not fair to say I am a member of Momentum and at the last meeting I attended etc

Trisher, Blair did not weed out anyone who was left wing, the militants were expelled in the eighties and they were not left wing but far left.

Not sure of your point annie

Follow whoever you want on fb and twitter. There's no problem posting from pretty much anywhere that I'm aware of - I've posted from the Communist Party twitter feed on this thread because it was relevant and my opinion.

The issue for me is that you've decided to become the arbiter of 'balance' for just one thread. Because you don't like people saying negative things about Corbyn.

You've already set up a thread for news from the opposition. Posters who want to read it can.

I don't think they do whitewave, I don't think we have really heard any hard facts about Momentum.

A lot of people on here and off have entrenched ideas about politics and how things work but no real knowledge. Just throwing mud in the direction of the one they don't like doesn't mean they are right. Of course, it doesn't mean they are wrong either.

It surely has to be better if you can do some research into Momentum and report back. I have found it hard to find out exactly what their thinking is and would certainly be interested. It might stop the apparent fear some people are expressing too.

Hi Pogs apologies for not copying down your entire posting, but along with my reply I felt between us both we would turn this in to a blog, and we would not want that would we.(LOL). Therefore I have copied down what I feel is the most salient section of your post.

Quote.. pogs[ snip.....To raise points of question I need to be clear that you are declaring Jeremy for Leader / Momentum and the Unite Union are one of the same and have been colluding for years....^snip^] End Quote.

Again, apologies if I did not make myself entirely clear in my previous postings in regards to Unite union involvement with Momentum, as reading back through my postings I believe that maybe the case.

In the above, anyone seeking to find the level of support Momentum has received from the Unite Union has to view the organisational structure of that union which is similar in many other unions I believe. At the top of the structure, there is the General Secretary (Len McLusky) and a National Organizer for each industry sector, which are all full time employees of the union. They are overseen by the General Executive Committee, which is made up of elected lay members (unpaid) which is the highest decision-making body within the Union outside of the Biannual Delegate Conference.

The above structure is copied at regional and district level (example, Regional Secretary, Regional Committee, District Secretary, District Committee). However, below all the above is the local branch structure which operate within the workplaces and are the point of first contact for members with workplace union reps or if that workplace has no union recognition then contact with a Branch officer.

In the above the branch officers and on site workplace union reps are those that have everyday dealings with members and their problems but are not directly employed by the union in any way. These voluntary workers do however have access to their Branch funds which are generally used for reimbursement of expenses for members attending meetings, tuition courses, etc, along with distress payments to member and crucially the "development of branch recruitment and other organizational ambitions"

In the above the "development of recruitment and branch ambitions" would be undoubtedly where funds can be channeled to the community branches and then into the development of Momentum. Within that Unite and other unions can legitimately claim that none of their employed Organizers or staff are involved in supporting Momentum in any way. They can also claim similar in regard to any of their their senior Lay committee's at national, regional or district level.

Anyone who has doubts in regard to the above has to then answer the question on how Momentum emerged so quickly and predominantly within the Labour movement and with such strong organizational ability.

Apologies for the long post, but a full explanation of Pogs request could not be shortened easily it seems (LOL)

Tom London tweeted

“Imagine your only source is news was the Telegraph or the Mail or Sun or Express.
Plus the BBC.
(Imagine you never used social media)
Then you would probably believe those lies about Corbyn being a traitor, wouldn’t you?

See how it works?”

GGMk2 I think that's a fair comment. Very few people actually focus on what Momentum or Corbynites say.
Most posts are about what they actually do.

There's been some interesting comments from Momentum activists on twitter. Max has spoken at the LP conference and is on Young Labour's National Committee, so he's a legitimate voice.

ww - who's Tom London? I've noticed you've quoted quite a few of his tweets but I have no idea who he is.

primrose that young man has rather contritely deleted that post and apologised for it. Wishing Ian McNicol well.

Do get a complete picture or people will think you are being unnecessarily biased

whitewave says ‘there isn’t a government in the world that could do worse than this one’
really ? In the world?
In which case I wonder why so many people are escaping from their well-run countries and would like to come to the UK? Could someone explain to me please?

ww Does that always rectify the problem? Say whatever you want on twitter, spread the hate and then providing you delete it, the problem is solved?
Not sure you'd take that attitude with the Tories.

Max Shanly has a twitter stream that is rich with hatred and profanity. That tweet was not out of character.

primrose I am sure it isnt but what exactly is the point you are making.

I am quite interested in how you found this young man and why you follow him?

I am unclear what his history is, perhaps you could let me know?
I am not excusing this young man, but I thought it necessary to give a complete picture about that particular tweet, which you failed to give presumably having your own reasons.

ww you can Google him if you'd like to know more - there's plenty of info out there and was easy enough to find out he's deleted a tweet. Better to come to your own conclusions.
I don't know if you missed it, but I was interested in who Tom London is. If I Google him, it just comes back with a magician, who I assume isn't the person you're quoting.

primrose how did you find out about this young man?

Why on earth would you want to follow such an immature young man who sounds about 15 and has a lot to learn?

It does seem a weird thing to do, but perhaps I’m doing young disservice?

Yes Tom London is a magician. He tweets some good stuff doesn’t he?

ww I've found your Tom London, he's not the magician. It's a Corbyn/Momentum activist from Harlesden. He's named himself after one of the founding fathers of the US - Thomas Paine. No delusions of grandeur there!

I am really not sure why you put the Max Shanly tweet next to a post directed at me Primrose.

People say stupid things, it is certainly not restricted to one group. Are you really suggesting, after an MP - not a member of the public an MP - has had to apologise and offered to pay into a charity so he doesn't get sued for slander, after all the lies and unfounded remarks in recent days that only people of one party say hateful things?

Are any of the papers that printed that story being sued? Or is is just the MP?

Another tweet from Tom London after the spy debacle

In 1924 a letter was “ leaked” to the Daily Mail, the content of which purportedly called on the communists to help the Labour Party and cause agitation in the army. 4 days before the election. The Labour Party lost the election. It was later found to have been forged by MI6

“At GE 2017, front page Telegraph warned that Corbyn would be “profoundly dangerous to the nation” Author was Sir Richard Dearlove former head of MI6. ( one of the men who got the U.K. into the Iraq catastrophe)

Tom London wonders if the security services have stopped interfering in U.K. domestic matters.