Russian spy attempted murder - what should the UK do?

It comes via the EU though.

I wonder how actually safe the connection to the Russian government is. If someone was killed with a Kalashnikov woould we immediately assume Russia was involved? No because the illegal arms trade has been touting them round for years. It doesn't seem a far step from that to assume things have moved on and nerve gas is now being traded as well. So it may be Putin, or Putin's mates, or someone Putin has traded gas to. It does seem a rather strange way to get rid of someone there are much easier and more effective ways.

Putin prefers horrible deaths, more of a warning to others than a clean shot to the head would be.
There is also the theory that he wants it to be known that it was Russia who did the deed, and that it has a long arm.
He doesn’t care anything about bystanders being caught up in things and probably doesn’t care about any repercussions either.
That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do anything though, or the next time things could be even worse.

lemongrove, you appear to have an insight into Putin's thoughts (alongside your claims to know what the Labour front bench think). There are different points of view of course.
Alexander Mercouris, in offGuardian, comments:

May's statement appears "to be entirely based upon a scientific assessment that the nerve agent used in the attack was one of the agents developed by the USSR in the 1970s and 1980s as part of the so-called Novichok programme. Details of the Novichok programme were disclosed by the Russians in the 90's, and the properties of the nerve agents developed as part of this programme are well known" (apparently in a book you can buy on Amazon). "So presumably this is why it was possible to assess that the nerve agent used in the attack on Skripal was one of those developed as part of this programme. However, that still doesn't mean that because the nerve agent used was of a type which was originally developed in Russia as part of the Novichok programme, that must mean that the Russian government or Russians were definitely responsible for the attack. That's on a par with saying that because sarin was originally developed decades ago in Germany, that means that any chemical weapons attack which uses sarin is attributable to Germany."

Not my thoughts, but of Russians interviewed on the radio
bmacca
Since the victims were Russian and considered traitors to the Russian State who else would be interested in murdering them using typical Russian methods with a nerve toxin developed by Russia.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, lays duck eggs like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

That would only hold true if all you duck analogies did Lemongrove. I don't blame Mrs May for saying what she did - in a way it is what people wanted to hear and you hope she was well briefed.

However, it is well known that there were atomic spies in various countries who gave information to Russia so that they could make their own atomic bomb, so I imagine it is possible for there to be people who pass information out of Russia too. Is Russia your duck? (That's a serious question)

That nerve agent is at Porton Down and lots of other scientific research labs now.
If, as May says, it can be removed from Russia's research labs, it can be moved from any other, too.
Much better to wait for any proof, rather than supposition in this case.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home

Handy.

worries me how many on here and on the media who are calling for "action" over this ..would we be volunteering for action against the UK and its leader if we heard about a similar case in another country? There is no doubt that there have been and will be cases ..hushed up ...heart attacks or accidents etc.Are we so naive we think these things are only attributable to "other" governments spies....or are "british" spies all gentlemen and heroes?lol

You forgot to say that all British MPs are honest and truthful, paddyann.

In regard to how Britain should react to what I feel is near to an act of war on UK soil, then undoubtedly it has to be an international response. In the foregoing even several European Union countries expelling Russian diplomats would have little effect I feel as the "Putin" controlled media would play that action down and nothing visible would be seen by the Russian public.

As a sports enthusiast (especially football) I believe that If it can be arranged that the all the major European football nations withdraw from the upcoming world cup tournament that action would be very apparent to the Russian population and could not be passed off easily by the Russian media.

The above may appear to many as a "light action gesture" in response to a near act of war inflicted on the British population. However, Putin and his government rule by what is visibly popular to the public in regard to the government and in that has placed great propaganda value in having the world cup played on their soil.

Organising such action as the above will not be easy as today (13th March) we already have some appearing in the media stating we should not mix politics with sport and In the past, I have often agreed with the foregoing statement. However, I believe this Russian action on UK soil is totally without precedent being that a nerve agent was used. Therefore, unprecedented action is required on our and our allies part, and although it would break many a football fans' heart (including mine) to not see their teams compete, that I feel is a price worth paying in this situation.

"Labour created a military regiment dedicated to fighting threats such as the use of nerve agents to harm UK citizens in the 1990s – but the Conservatives cut it as part of their Austerity measures in 2011.

It was one of many, many cuts that the Tories inflicted on the country, weakening our ability to combat not only terror attacks but also attacks from foreign aggressors.

It seems clear that the poisoning of Sergei Skripal might hot have happened, had the Tories not “neglected and underfunded” – the Tories’ own words! – specialist military expertise to deal with the threat.

Today’s (March 13) BBC Daily Politics show featured a vox pop in which a majority of the people of Bexleyheath said Austerity has not been worth it."

Skripal was allegedly poisoned on 5th March, just fifteen days prior UK armed forces had been doing their “biggest ever” chemical weapons training exercise, “Toxic Dagger”. The article states that Public Health England (PHE) was a major part of this training exercise, and yet it is being reported now that UK authorities – especially PHE – were caught out by the attack, and handled it badly, such as waiting a week before telling people to wash their clothes, wipe phones with baby wipes etc. It's hard to have much faith in them reaching any definitive answer to what actually happened and who was responsible

I doubt if any other countries will boycott the World Cup, a sole U.K. withdrawal would be a rather empty gesture, as I’m sure another country would be pleased to take our place. Basically, we haven’t any hard evidence, the perpetrators will have fled the country easily, we don’t know what this man was really up to apart from living on a U.K. pension, it’s all a bit murky and worrying.

honestly, I have no idea - a very dangerous situation indeed

I agree with you on that Grandad as Putin is very keen on anything sporting and prestigious.
It would be a start, anyway.
Russia has been allowed to host far too much, their sportsmen are often ( very often) found to be cheating by taking performance enhancing drugs.

That doesn’t make sense durhamjen it would still have happened regardless.The will to carry it out was there, and the expertise.
It wouldn't matter how much money was thrown at creating
Units to combat terrorism, and this particular case would never have even been thought of by Special Branch.

Yes. Mass withdrawal of teams from the world cup would certainly convey international opprobrium to the general Russian public. However, there are colossal vested interests in football, TV rights, gambling etc so those involved would be most unlikely to co operate. Money talks.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/03/13/to-russia-with-love/

She could do this.

"Labour created a military regiment dedicated to fighting threats such as the use of nerve agents to harm UK citizens in the 1990s

As far as I was aware, the UK armed forces have always been trained to deal with these threats. Was there increased risk in the 1990s?

So presumably Labour would now campaign to increase the capacity of the armed forces and re-create this unit?

Quote[ Gerispringer 13/03/18. @18:28

I doubt if any other countries will boycott the World Cup, a sole U.K. withdrawal would be a rather empty gesture, as I’m sure another country would be pleased to take our place. Basically, we haven’t any hard evidence, the perpetrators will have fled the country easily, we don’t know what this man was really up to apart from living on a U.K. pension, it’s all a bit murky and worrying] End Quote

Geri, I would agree that an England only boycott of the World Cup would be an empty gesture. That stated I feel that supporters, players and officials going to Russia in the current atmosphere between the two countries would be putting them at quite severe risk of attack.

In the foregoing, I believe that the evidence of Russian government involvement is now very strong being the nerve agent involved was technologically highly advanced and could only have been developed by a government. It is known that Russia did develop such an agent and probably solely so (or at least that is what we are being told)

The reason I take this incident so seriously would be, not because the perpetrators targeted this ex spy, but because they also targeted his daughter who was in all probability totally innocent. Also, in using a nerve agent they affected and put at risk all who attended the scene and many other persons who just happened to be in the area.

In all the above, we as a nation have to respond and if the European Union and other nations are fully in support of Britain (as is being stated today) then to request them to boycott the World Cup would be a relatively small but highly affective gesture of support to take.

I would be the first to agree that there could be resistance from various nations football associations. However, the British government must strongly emphasize that if the Russian government is allowed to walk away from this near act of war without serious repercussion against them, then without doubt the same will be repeated again and again in almost any country worldwide.

I think it was formed for use in the Middle East, not here, and is a unit not a regiment. In the past couple of years it has been revived for use in the Middle East because of increased threat:

The unit of air tight armoured vehicles, costing around £1.5m each, is designed to scout ahead of troops to find and identify potential chemical, biological or nuclear hazards on the battlefield.

Maj Gareth Morris, commander, said that while such weapons in the Cold War era had been tightly controlled by state armies, as those states fail, they were now falling into the hands of terrorist groups and militia

The reason I take this incident so seriously would be, not because the perpetrators targeted this ex spy, but because they also targeted his daughter who was in all probability totally innocent.
Could she have been used to carry this nerve agent into the country; did someone plant it in her luggage? They became ill the day after she arrived here.
Although I would have thought sniffer dogs would have detected something unusual as she came through the airport. If, of course, they were used. They are certainly used in other countries I have visited.

Personally, I don't agree with using sport in this way as I believe sport is a way of bringing nations and ordinary citizens together.

Sniffer dogs are trained to ‘sniff’ certain things not necessarily nerve chemicals so I see no reason why your theory couldn’t be true
I don’t see it as Russia ‘declaring war on our country’ at all they target specific people who have caused them problems
I don’t see what can possible be accomplished by calling them out to answer before midnight what can we do what did we do after the other guy was killed with a cup of tea or the one before with the umbrella stabbing it’s not the first time is it
Next it ll be Trump dying to get some action on his watch jumping in to defend us
God help us all I would think

For anyone who has a spare hour.

soundcloud.com/user-957591628/7-bill-browder

You can listen to it while on Gransnet.