Syria - what can be done

Coming in late because have been away. Like the rest of you, I too have been reading Robert Fisk’s reports from the Middle East for several years. He cares about his subject, And carries on sending these reports even when the rest of the world is looking the other way. He knows the territory well. He has a deserved reputation for getting where he wants to go, seeing what he wants to see, and ‘telling it like it is’. A great pity that it is suddenly found necessary to denounce him in this way. And whatever our politics the Marmite comments are uncalled for IMO.

They should just come home, no point hanging around while the Russians clear away any evidence.

trisher

Re your link it was common knowledge 3 days ago they were being fired on.

That is obviously why I said they should have gone in with Fisk and asked 'why do you think that is"?

The team have withdrawn anyway after coming under attack.
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/18/arrival-of-chemical-inspectors-in-douma-delayed-by-gunfire

Since getting involved in this civil war the US and Brits objective has been to preven Iran making further gains in Syria, this is at the behest of Israel who certainly do not want Iran any closer to them. If you research international news you will find in the days around the 'alleged' chemical attack Israel was making bombing incursions into Syria, an extremely dangerous thing to do.
As everything around the gassing appears rather inconclusive and all that was shown on TV were the poor children potentially to draw in the gullible whilst the actual odd Us/French/Brit (only) minor bomb raid was actually a nod to Iran and Russia not to respond to the Israeli bombings or else!

There won't be any evidence left now! The authorities have had four days to clear it all up and prime a few people to deny all knowledge! You don't have to be over bright to realise that!!

The Russian excuses for not allowing them in was laughable.
It doesn’t matter though, there was enough evidence at the time ( and perhaps the 50 or more times that Assad used barrel bombs or other chemical weapons.)

trisher

"Suppose there isn't any evidence, how would Mrs May &Cos missile attack look then?"

There probably is little to no chance of finding evidence by now but why do you think that is?

As I said previously on this or another thread . The OPCW should have gone into Douma with the ' lauded by some' journalist Robert Fisk so they would not get shot at. Who knew all they had to say was "We're with him".

The idea that the Douma event isn't questionable on so many grounds is ridiculous. It can no more definitely be said that there was a chemical attack and that Assad was responsible than it can be said that there wasn't. It is a matter of keeping an open mind and looking at all the evidence. Even then you have to take into account that there is major propaganda involved on all sides. Suppose there isn't any evidence, how would Mrs May &Cos missile attack look then?

True niggly perhaps Russians like Marmite?
Or considered him a useful dupe?

Marmite, something brown and unpleasant?

But not a journalist lemon!!!!!!

Jura, who doesn't care about children in the Yemen or Palestine? The media focus currently is on the children hurt in the chemical attacks in Syria. There are frequent tv/msm references to the children, and adults, affected in the Yemen, in Palestine and also the Rohinga Muslim refugee community. There are frequent appeals from various charities to fund raise to help those children (and their families)
I'm not suggesting these various groups receive equal publicity but I am asking how you reach the conclusion that "we" don't care about those children.

As for Fisk, I've been googling and reading. Someone said upthread he's Marmite and that's one way of describing him.

Apparently it was ‘the paperwork’ and security matters that kept the chemicals team out of Douma for so long........
Yes, of course it was!

And who is the leading player in NATO, POGS?

trisher

"Russia also introduces a draft resolution which condemns "aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic by the US and its allies," but it only receives three votes and fails to pass.

True but as said the Russian resolution was defeated in the UN , there was no ' veto ' it was debated and voted on.

The outcome of the Russian resolution was the 3 countries UK/USA/FRANCE had the backing of NATO/UN/EU and many more.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg

" I support the actions taken by the United States, the United Kingdom and France against the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons facilities and capabilities. This will reduce the regime’s ability to further attack the people of Syria with chemical weapons.

NATO has consistently condemned Syria's continued use of chemical weapons as a clear breach of international norms and agreements. The use of chemical weapons is unacceptable, and those responsible must be held accountable.

NATO considers the use of chemical weapons as a threat to international peace and security, and believes that it is essential to protect the Chemical Weapons Convention. This calls for a collective and effective response by the international community."
--

Much as I hate cut and paste if people ask
April 10, 2018: The UN Security Council votes on three resolutions to address chemical weapons use in Syria. Russia vetoed a U.S.-sponsored resolution which would have created a UN Independent Mechanism of Investigation with a one-year mandate to investigate the responsible actors for chemical weapons use in Syria. A Russian resolution which would have created a similar body but would have allowed the UN Security Council, not the investigative body, to ultimately determine accountability fails to receive enough votes to pass. A second Russian resolution, which urged the OPCW Fact Finding Mission to investigate the incident and offered Russian military protection for investigators, also fails to receive enough votes to pass. The OPCW had already announced earlier that day that it was planning to deploy a Fact-Finding Mission to Douma
and
. The UN Security Council meets to discuss the situation in Syria. The United Kingdom states that the legal basis for its joint strike is humanitarian intervention. Russia and Bolivia condemn the strike, which they assert is a violation of the UN Charter. Russia also introduces a draft resolution which condemns "aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic by the US and its allies," but it only receives three votes and fails to pass. France, the United Kingdom and the United States announce their intention to introduce a draft resolution on political and humanitarian tracks to resolve the conflict.

It's playing politics of course but both sides are involved

trisher

"They have proposed several alternative motions to the UN, but none has been taken up. Do you never wonder why?"

What are they and I may be able to respond.

POGS that's obvious a journalist travels at his own risk and goes where he wishes, if something happens to him it is regretful but personal. A UN delegation needs clearance at all levels and a safe escort, if anything happens to anyone in that delegation it could cause an international incident.
Russia may be "Assad's mouthpiece" he is the official government of Syria. They have proposed several alternative motions to the UN, but none has been taken up. Do you never wonder why?

trisher

" The fact is that far from being a one-off incident that needed immediate reprisal chemical warfare has been going on for a long tme in Syria and the Middle East. So why send missiles now?"

Yes it has obviously been going on for a while because Russia has vetoed the UN at every turn. Russia is Assad's mouthpiece in the UN and Assad is protected by Russia both militarily and politically.

The only time Russia backed the UN was in 2013 when it agreed Syria should get rid of their stock piles of chemical weapons. He obviously lied and had no intention of complying with any agreement with the UN.

trisher

I did not misrepresent anything. In fact I said your link was a ' worthwhile read'.

You say -
" As far as access goes you should remember that this is a war zone and that the Russians are probably the only people who are able to offer access to some areas, and that they would necessarily need to ensure that the areas to be visited were secure, so might delay."

That is a possibility but I think there are answers to that in your link if I remember .

That point also raises a question why a journalist is allowed in to Douma to go about his business freely but the delegation from the OPCW are refused.

POGS I deliberately didn't cut and paste any parts of the report because it is so possible to misrepresent what has been going on , just as you have done.
As far as access goes you should remember that this is a war zone and that the Russians are probably the only people who are able to offer access to some areas, and that they would necessarily need to ensure that the areas to be visited were secure, so might delay.
Although Syria missed deadlines (and probably for the same reason) they did cooperate and the UN agreed that the majority of chemical weapons had been removed. Some of course, perhaps if stored in rebel held areas, remained.
The fact is that far from being a one-off incident that needed immediate reprisal chemical warfare has been going on for a long tme in Syria and the Middle East. So why send missiles now?

jura

You obviously follow Fisk but he is Marmite.

According to most respected journalists, Robert Fisk peddles propaganda
As other western journalists were risking their lives to report Assad’s massacres of civilians, including The Sunday Times’ Marie Colvin – who the Assad regime killed for reporting the truth, Fisk has trumpeted the Assad regime and Russian propaganda

jura

The OPCW should have said 'We're with him' and they would have gotten in Douma to investigate.

I wonder why they have delayed them?