Syria - what can be done

MawBroon- who said they were in Switzerland? I live less than half a mile from France- and the people I talk about belong to an Expat group in France- some of whom still living in the UK with the hope to move asap.

I would suggest that the cabinet are just a little better informed than the voters and would therefore be in a better position to make these judgments. No one on here seems to be criticising President Macron? very strange, always Britain though, goes without saying, and of course America!

It’s very noticeable, isn’t it, even in the news, no criticism at all for Macron and France.Hmmmmm.

lemon, I agree that in any emergency situation the government has the responsibility to take action rather than consult with Parliament. I'm not convinced the action on Friday was the result of an emergency. That doesn't mean I'd never support military action or that I don't care about the devastation being caused in Syria. It means I'm reflecting on this country's recent involvement in the Middle East

I understand that Iam but really don’t think it is a comparable situation.
Hopefully there will be no need for any more missile strikes and that the message has got through.

We can only hope and pray you're right lemon.

lemon...

"IF the Assad regime doesn’t now use any more gas on his own people then that was a worthwhile thing to do.

IF Putin realises that the West will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons anywhere, then that was a worthwhile thing to do."

Two enormous IFs there - neither of which will come to fruition in my view. Far more likely that there will be a backlash to the detriment of the Syrian people and those countries that were party to the attack.

You cannot judge Assad and Putin by the rational standards on which we supposedly function. Neither of those hopes in your post is likely to be achieved in this instance - and worse may come as a result.

"Hopefully there will be no need for any more missile strikes and that the message has got through."

How can you believe this of someone who would kill and maim their own citizens? Do you really believe they function in this logical way? Do you seriously believe that this will be the result? Sorry but that truly is nonsense.

I am not religious, but I am praying too. Like you Lucky, I think it was a massive and dangerous gamble- and we still have no idea what will happen next. It would take very little for the whole thing to become the worst conflict the world has ever seen. I despair for our grandchildren.

Strangely enough, those who seem to support the strikes- would be the first ones to say we should not accept refugees, even children, from Syria. And all this to poodle up to Trump, as we are desperate for trade deals to replace those with the EU- and because China and Russia have now cornered the worl Oil market, by-passing the $ and £.

Irak was about oil- and this is too- and Trump's ego.

An “expat group still living in the U.K.?”


Never mind.
Horse’s mouth for me every time though.

" no criticism at all for Macron and France."
Wiki expresses things better than I can:
"Relations between France and Syria have a long, rich historical background. Syria was a French League of Nations Mandate for two decades following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, before the last French troops were evacuated from Syria and Syrian independence was officially recognized and diplomatic relations between France and the newly created Syrian state were established."
Just guessing now, but perhaps France wants to continue their influence and economic interest in Syria.

As you say Fennel, no criticism of France!! How very strange!!

My grandfather in the first world fought in the trenches. He soon found out about mustered gas and other nerve gasses. In the second world war his job was to (He was then a chemist)give lectures on how to survive these gasses. How did he know the many different nerve gasses in use. He had to smell them. I never new my grandfather he died before I was born.I wonder what was the thought then? We should learn from past history. How sad we don't.

and while Parliament was being consulted, Assad would have (and probably did anyway as soon as retaliation was mentioned) moved the chemical stocks, if there were any, out of harms way.. All we have seen is buildings turned to rubble. In reality a bomb attack on chemicals would surely result in clouds of noxious gasses spreading everywhere, explosions and fires etc
and now Mr Putin wants to get the UN to condemn the action - he being the very one who in the past would be the first to veto any similar resolution against an aggressor.
Meanwhile what is the silent Germany thinking? No doubt feeling smug at having had nothing to do with it and hence not put at risk their cosy secret deals with Russia - such as gas imports at a concessionary price one third of that enjoyed by any other EU country (which discrimination by the way, goes against EU rules).

As you said starboard, no doubt Assad would have already moved the chemical stocks to avoid retaliation.
Germany's history no doubt influences its decisions on any war. I don't expect their politicians feel "smug" because they didn't become directly involved in the bombing. Hopefully, they are active in diplomatic efforts to resolve the impossible situation.

Trump postured about retaliation for days - and of course Assad had all the time in the world to put stuff away. And of cours, bombing chemical weapons facility full of the stuff would have resulted in a very visible chemical disaster.

MawBroon - yes, an expat group of people who mostly live in France now- but with many who are in the process of doing so- got the property, and now waiting to retire or sell their home in UK, or for kids to finish school- and come back and forth. Not difficult to imagine, really.

Who read Remarque's 'Nothing new on the Western front' (not sure what the UK title was, I read it in German in 6th Form).

It seems to me that there are a lot of 'if' and 'could' on this thread.

'If' we hadn't attacked Assad 'could' have used chemical weapons again. Well equally if we hadn't attacked Assad may not have used chemical weapons again.

You can't second guess what someone else might or might not have done.

There was a spokeswoman for the government on the TV this morning saying how we had to act to protect Syrian children and how it was a humanitarian act. I'd have bought into this line more if we'd taken in Syrian refugees. Somehow we can be caring with bombs but not by helping people escaping bombs.

Luckygirl am slightly puzzled by your posts, as you don’t ‘sound’ like your usual self with these postings.
Anyway, to answer your points, yes, I did say ‘if’ because there are no certainties in life, but it seemed a worthwhile ‘if’ people there are no longer subject to being gassed,while the war there rolls to it’s inevitable close.
No doubt Assad’s troops did move some chemical weapons
But the point is, the missile strikes shows that the West is now watching closely what happens.
Russia will probably step up it’s hacking and dirty tricks
campaign as a result, but they have been doing that for a long time anyway.
Iam64 is right about Germany, their military past is ‘still with them’.

Criticizing the action taken implicitly criticizes those who made the decision to take it - i.e. Trump and Macron as well as May, Fennel.

I can just see Putin and Assad chatting on the phone now and saying "Gosh we have been awfully naughty boys and thank goodness the west have shown us the way."

Erich Maria Remarque’s All Quiet On The Western Front

lemon - I am still me! I just feel passionately about this.

I do not want us led to the brink of a world war - too many lovely people and those I love could be put at risk.

I know, I know - these people in Syria are loved ones of many and are at risk and I care deeply about that too; but any action we take in the west has to be one that will help not hinder. Putting the backs up of these crazy dictators will help no-one in my view, and just escalates the situation.

It is all so very very sad - but humans seem to be programmed to go down these atavistic territorial routes - maybe, if the world survives, evolution will breed this nonsense out of us.

Now that post sounds like you Luckygirl
I thought your name may have been hijacked!

lemon
The infrastructure you seem worried about trisher were military/ labs.
Perhaps- if you believe western governments. I have no doubt that there will be stories circulating in the Middle East that these were in fact pharmaceutical labs producing valuable medical supplies. The truth of course will be lost in the propaganda war waged by all the parties.

So many unanswered questions - we will probably never know the answers.

How can the RAF have destroyed Assad’s chemical weapon stockpile? Wouldn’t it be too dangerous to do that? Even the ingredients alone? Surely bombing the stockpiles would have released the gases poisoning thousands?
Perhaps I’m missing something here.

Attacking Russia means we’re at risk of retaliation, cyber attacks could be devastating for the NHS, Air traffic control etc.

Why oh why can’t we keep out of the Middle East. The Western powers meddling in a “we know best” way just makes it worse.

Why not let the OPCW do their job of inspecting?