Regret it Brexit?

Varian immigrations was not the main concern for me when I voted to leave the EU.

My concern is that the EU is a failing system. That will bring us down with it. My view from reading a lot about the state of the EU is that more Countries will leave.
For those interested, the link below will add some bones to my comment here.

www.ips-journal.eu/topics/european-union/article/show/the-real-state-of-the-european-economy-2287/

If the public knew that other countries use an EU directive to repatriate thousands of individuals, they would realise the Brexit emperor has no clothes.

Concern over immigration was one of the most important factors for those who voted for Brexit, yet we already have the power to take back control of the free movement of EU citizens to the UK – we just aren’t using it. Both major political parties’ front benches, and even cabinet members, are divided when it comes to whether Britain should remain in the single market, which entails allowing free movement of people within the EU. But the reality of immigration in Britain today is a far cry from the public’s perception.

We lost control over our borders almost two decades ago. In 1998, Tony Blair removed exit checks. Nobody checks your passport once you have gone through security at an airport, as they do in virtually every other country in the world. As a result, we have no robust way of knowing exactly who has left this country. The government cannot even provide figures for illegal immigrants in the UK who are not detained to the nearest quarter of a million.

Why doesn’t the government implement these exit checks? Every person entering and leaving the country needs to have their passport scanned, EU and non-EU alike; only then we will have true control of our borders. Exit checks would not only act as a deterrent but would give us accurate migration data, identify overstaying individuals and give us correct figures when it comes to international students.

The government reintroduced exit checks in 2015 – but these fall well short of the physical, visible checks after security, which are airport-enforced. And the government refuses to release any statistics from these checks for one reason: they would demolish the anti-immigration stance taken by this government

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit

I completely agree with your post Joelsnan. There is nothing I could add.

Ilovecheese I was an 'on the fencer' prior to the vote, wasn't bothered either way. I then started taking an interest in the EU the countries involved, their politics, the EU politics and bureaucracy and voted leave. I would prefer a clean break however am open to compromise unless it means continued control but without any influence.
When the Irish border is discussed it is always 'what is the UK going to do about this' when actually it is as much (if not more) of an EU problem therefore we should ask 'what are they going to do about it' and let them develop an acceptable compromise.
There are other countries in the EU who would leave were it not for the fear this entails and the large grants that they receive.
UK should be looking to develop a common market, just as the European concept started before federalist started pushing their agenda. I am sure many countries would opt for free trade without the 'add ons' that they are obliged to accept now.
Norway has a tiny population compared to its landmass so uncontlled immigration is less of an issue. I do not know the numbers of people relocating to Norway but guess it's much lower than UK.

The North and proud of it gillybob. Where do you come from?

Can I ask roughly, what part of the UK you come from Allygran1 ?

From the Newcastle Evening Chronicle:

"The NE region continues to rely heavily on the EU for its export market, with 62% of all exports from the North East destined for Europe"

A very scary future ahead.

Mostlyharmless.

Sorry, I thought it was a genuine post.

Gill I have.
I am just not responding to this sort of post.So don't waste your breath.

Since we are looking at the EEA, probably because of the House of Lords and the so called Brexit Bill, I for one needed more information:

The Uk could not remain a member state of the EEA after Brexit. Article 126 EEA . After Brexit from what I have read, the UK not being a member of either the EU or EFTA cannot be a EEA member nor could we be a candidate to become one. The EEA is essentially a commercial association not a political one.

I have paraphrased the information below and made acknowledgement to the author at the end.

In order to be a member of EEA after the EU Treaties cease (article 50 (3) TEU) the UK would have to apply for candidacy and negotiate and accession agreement become an EFTA member (article 56 (1) of the convention establishing the EFTA). Because EEA does not apply to non EU member states other than the four EFTA's Switzerland , Iceland, Leichtenstein and Norway (article 126 (1) EEA).

If we went down that route of negotiation and were accepted into EFTA we could then apply to be part of the EEA outside the EU in the same way as the other four Countries. This cannot be done until after Brexit. The process would take years.

The conditions on us if we went that way would be:
(This is cut and paste):
-1) As legally binding in its national law the transposition of all EU directives and regulations for the internal market, without participating in their decision « making » but only on « shaping » them (art 99 and 102-104 EEA).
-2) The four freedoms, including the free movement of persons (art 1 and 28 EEA). This would permit the UK to fully participate in the EU single market, with the current exceptions (agriculture and fisheries), while not being part of the EU Customs Union, being thus able to conclude its own bilateral trade agreements.
-3) A strict application of EU law once it would have been incorporated in EEA law and in its national law (art 104 and 108 EEA).
-4) The EEA rule according to which all decisions to be taken by the EEA Council or by the EEA Joint Committee need a common agreement of the EEA EFTA States (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and thus the UK). Each of those States is able to refuse a proposed decision and, for example, to prevent the others to follow quickly EU legislation (art 90(1) and 93 EEA).
-5) An indirect but substantive participation in the EU budget (art 115-117 EEA)[4].
-6) The surveillance rôle of the independent EEA Authority (one member per EEA member State), comparable to the rôle played by the Commission vis-à-vis the member States in the EU (art 108 and 109 EEA, art 5 and 6 EFTA Agreement).
-7) The interpretation of applicable texts and the judicial control to be insured by the independent EFTA Court (one member per EEA member State), which is the pendant to the EU Court of Justice (art 31-41 EFTA Agreement), must follow its past case law and pay due account of the principles it lays down (art 3 EFTA Agreement). According to article 33 of the EFTA Agreement, « The EFTA States concerned shall take the necessary measures to comply with the judgments of the EFTA Court ».
-8) The necessary homogeneity of the internal market within the Area, which comprises the 28 EU Members and the three EEA EFTA members, which implies unavoidably that the interpretation of identical texts cannot be different than the interpretation given by the EUCJ in its case-law (art 6 and 105-112 EEA, especially 107 and 111(3), art 2 and 3 EFTA Agreement).

For me, as a leave voter this is not Brexit.

It will be interesting to see what other think after reading this

Ref:Why the UK will not become an EEA member after Brexit
Jean-Claude Piris / Sep 2017

Manufacturing has been mostly eliminated in the U.K. anyway hasn’t it? It’s less than 10% gdp.

Patrick Minford the Brexit supporting economist:

North East business and political leaders have hit out at a Brexit-supporting economist after he admitted leaving the EU would “mostly eliminate manufacturing”. May 2016

Daniel Hannan was the one who said "absolutely no-one is talking about leaving the Single Market, so perhaps he actually meant it.

Didn’t someone senior say that UK Manufacturing industry would have to be sacrificed for Brexit?

Yes Mostly - I was amazed too - from what I understood of the article EFTA gives a bit more control on the numbers of workers immigrating.

The Government seem to be forgetting the reality of businesses having to plan ahead gillybob. We’re only ten months from exiting the EU and still nobody has the faintest idea what the deal will look like.

The fear of the final Brexit deal is already having an impact on some of our customers GillT57 who tend to be large volume manufacturers, so there will be a knock on effect eventually. At least 2 that I am aware of have started moving production to Europe in preparation and one has mothballed an entire factory.

Add this to the diesel car fiasco forcing Nissan to cut 100's of jobs its frightening for this region who rely on manufacturing .

Dan Hannah arch Brexiteer?????
Wants to stay in EEA/EFTA???

The cut’n’paste comment was tongue in cheek allygran.

is advocating!

I see Daniel Hanna. Has now said that Brexit is not going at all as he envisaged and I’d advocating we stay in EFTA — report in Standard.

I think it is all starting to come out now Gillybob, how will it affect your business? Will you be ok?

Listening to various news reports this morning the NE region is probably going to suffer the most after Brexit . Not in the slightest bit surprised.

Just back from a busy day ( no, not writing on forums all over the place Allygran), your comments made in the early hours of the morning are freaking me out, all this talk of 'them and us' type divisions. We have managed, generally amicably, to disagree on GN, to even have cross words, get exasperated with each other, but I am afraid you are just too much for me. I find your sneering references to my name, to what I say, to how I say it, rather sinister, nobody else gets under my skin like you do, so I am leaving this discussion. If you are an indication of a Brexit voter with your patronising, your veiled threats, then I am glad I voted to remain. You have made this thread unpleasant and nasty. Report me if you like.

Mostlyharmless please don't apologies for cut and past. If it add to knowledge and information and says something better than we can I can't see anything wrong with that. The cut and paste you put up is good reading and added to the debate.