Regret it Brexit?

Geri I don't do twitter and not much interested in the build up to the Royal Wedding. But I will continue to see if I can find the latest data on the YouGov website.

The problem with stats information is that depending on where it is coming from depends on how reliable it is. Thats why I like to take a look at the whole report or research. It gives me a better picture.

YouGov results are usually collated on their website a couple of weeks after the data collection. YouGov are fairly reliable source of statistical evidence as far as opinion surveys go, as they do know how to run a representative survey. Twitter is good for getting up to date info. Can be a bit addictive though.

Geri - your link in post of 16.32 - that's more what I would expect.
Older NE voters very proud of their country, perhaps remembering standing alone in WW2. Not many left now.

Those who are really proud of our country are proud of an open, tolerant, vibrant, forward looking country which is an important member of the European Union.

When we had an empire, you could say our place in the world reflected our colonialism, but for the last forty years our place in the world, our standing, our reputation has been as a strong member of the EU. That is not something we should be throwing away.

Well said Varian , I couldn’t agree more.

'Most estimates put the Conservative figure at around 100,000, but the head of the Campaign for Conservative Democracy said he believed it had dropped to just 70,000.

In stark contrast, Labour said it had 552,000 members last summer. Both the Scottish National Party (118,000) and the Liberal Democrats (103,000) also reported six-figure totals.'

This does not count the DUP, UKIP, or the Greens, so thus a total party membership in the UK of approx 900,000

Thanks Geri I might have a go at Twitter.

It’s not members who matter, it’s voters, so numbers are neither here nor there.
If it mattered, Corbyn would have won the GE last year, but he didn’t.

varian we have never actually been a full member of EU we never adopted the single currency and have opted out on a number of occasions. I am sure MEPs will confirm that the UKs influence in the EU has only been embraced when it is in support of other countries, mainly the development if the Eastern bloc to provide an EU Russia buffer zone, however even that is waning especially in Poland. Our influence has been diminishing over the years, our leverage only being relevant as a result of our financial input. Of course the EU wants us to remain, we are supporting large populations in these countries through standard contributions, through outsourcing our industry and for providing homes, employment and benefits to their lower skilled expats.

The contributions are done on a percentage amount - all countries paying the same percentage of their GDP - it is about 1 /2% not a great deal really of the nations budget.
U.K. had a lot of influence as many of the laws were actually U.K. laws which were adapted. The U.K. is seen as a good law making coubtry.
We have been treated with a great deal of leeway over a number of issues with the EU such as you say the Euro but the great majority of rules and regulations have been abided by.
People do seem to forget that the main reason for the formation of a bloc of any sort back in the day was for European peace - and then trade. I am not for a moment suggesting that by leaving the U.K. is increasing the likelyhood of going to war but I think it does well to just remember that fact from time to time. For the previous hundreds of years there was a war being fought somewhere in Europe and Churchill saw this was one of the best ways of helping to stop them.

varian we have never actually been a full member of EU we never adopted the single currency and have opted out on a number of occasions.

Wow! That's an interesting spin on our membership of the EU.

I am sure MEPs will confirm that the UKs influence in the EU has only been embraced when it is in support of other countries, mainly the development if the Eastern bloc to provide an EU Russia buffer zone, however even that is waning especially in Poland. Our influence has been diminishing over the years, our leverage only being relevant as a result of our financial input.

Just try this thread on what we have achieved over the years through our influence on the EU

twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474555171000321

I am sure MEPs will confirm ...

Of course, it all depends which MEPs you listened to. I would discount the UKIP ones straight away as they were on a mission to get us out of the EU and their very presence diminished our influence as they had no intention of doing the job for which they were elected.

Here's what a proper working MEP has to say:

www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

People do seem to forget that the main reason for the formation of a bloc of any sort back in the day was for European peace - and then trade. I am not for a moment suggesting that by leaving the U.K. is increasing the likelyhood of going to war but I think it does well to just remember that fact from time to time.

There was an interesting thread on this theme just a few days ago on twitter

twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/995994654838611968

Fennel response to Geri "that's more what I would expect.
Older NE voters very proud of their country, perhaps remembering standing alone in WW2. Not many left now".

It might be Fennel that these 'older NE voters" voted to brexit based on their experiences of life since WW2.

Their pride might be in a life well lived, the quality of life of their family's, their achievements, the people they have loved and do love. Their ability to make informed decisions, based on how they live and the effects of the EU membership on their lives, and the society they live in as they see it.

Men who went to war or women who stayed at home worked in mens jobs as it was regarded then, and brought up the children on her own, on rations may feel pride in this Country of course. Having fought to preserve the freedom of others and our own from tyranny, it will feature in who they are, but as part of their lives, not their entire live's. We would be mistaken to think that.

And when they do remember WW11 I should imagine that they remember the men/boys who fell -the husband or lovers or sons and brothers who never came home, who never had the life they have had. These were real people to them not just the "glorious" dead.

Pride is not held in the Country for war, its held in the men who fought it and then the women who held the fort and waited. That is the very essence of remembrance day, we don't glorify the conflict we remember the dead who lost their lives in the conflict, as well as those who survived and have contributed every day since, as citizens to the well being of future generations.

It might be Fennel that these 'older NE voters" voted to brexit based on their experiences of life since WW2.

Or it might just be that they were striking a blow against the tory governments which have done so much to destroy their regions since WW2. The once proud shipbuilders, miners and steelworkers of the NE have had very little to thank the tories for in the past few decades. It wasn't the EU that destroyed their industries. The last tory insult fresh in their minds may have been the tory refusal to support EU anti dumping measures against Chinese steel as Tata steel went to the wall in Teeside.

MaizieD Lets not get party political lets stick with Brexit.

Don't be daft, Ally; Brexit is party political. And it is a fact that the North has suffered from tory policies since the 1980s and that some of their Leave vote was a protest against the tories. You are kidding yourself if you think that it was purely based on issues with the EU.

Maisie my point is that it is not just a Conservative issue. The ECSC plus Labour Governments have been instrumental in the destruction of Iron,Coal and Steel Industries.

In the 1978 Europe starting to uncouple the industry from decades of price floors and output quotas, as a result the UK steel industry and other ECSC member countries had the same experience. We went through a wave of closures that took the workforce from 668,000 after the war to around 130,000.

This painful overhaul paved the way for the British Steel Corporation to be privatised on the stock market in 1988, only for it to merge with its Dutch rival to form Corus in 1999 as it struggled to make ends meet.

By the time the Indian conglomerate Tata took over the business for £4.3bn in 2006, it had around 48,000 employees worldwide. Since then, the Indian firm has written down more than £5bn in lost value as it tried to repair the business.

It's much to do with the ECSC. As was cheap coal from Germany under the ECSC instrumental in the closure of our mines.

We just know more about the background to all this now.
I do understand what you say about the NE and other parts of the North people have long memories and rightly so. It is just important that we know the background better than just blaming the Conservatives.
I will send you the link for the parts of this I have copied tomorrow.

If you can copy & paste an article why on earth can't you paste the link to it at the same time? Everyone else who posts links manages that simple task.

No

Yes

I am old enough to have voted Leave twice in my lifetime. In 1975, it was regarded as Left Wing and in 2016, it was regarded as Right Wing. To me, it was neither, simply that I am sceptical of the European Union and like Tony Benn, Barbara Castle and others back in the day, prefer to keep our Parliamentary democracy, warts and all.

I wonder what Barbara Castle would have said to the charge that she was old, stupid, gullible, intolerant and racist for voting Leave. It is an insidious stereotype which has been taken up by politicians (some of whom voted Leave in 1975), media people and, sadly, in the past, here among people old enough to know better.

For what it is worth, I think there will be another Referendum whether we like it or not. My guess is this. If the EU really wants us in, they will offer a bad deal if we leave and a sweetened deal if we stay in. On a free vote, Parliament rejects the bad deal and asks for the country to decide. I would not guess the outcome of the 3rd Referendum but I would hope it would be a better campaign than 2016 by both sides with more discussion of our future within a United States of Europe. If my vision of a centralised, bureaucratic, undemocratic, inflexible and possibly failing Union is wrong, I would like to hear arguments to the contrary rather than unwarranted insults.

It is only a guess and a hope. When it comes to crystal ball gazing, the experts and pollsters get it wrong often enough so I suppose we will have to wait and see.

When it comes to crystal ball gazing, the experts and pollsters get it wrong often enough

Such a comforting thought isn't it? The perfect excuse for ignoring what the experts (apart from a few mavericks) have been saying right from the start. Leaving the EU is bad for the UK.

Several of the leaders of other EU countries do not want a federal state and that is not what is being discussed at the moment. A European army is not on the cards either - more co-operation between forces yes and a number of countries concentrating on what they are good at or have the expertise in and then pooling resources when needed.

I see Turkey would like a trade deal as long as free movement of its people is given - so now we have India, Brazil, Australia and Turkey to name but a few wanting free movement in return for trade. I would prefer to have people coming from nearer home so that they could afford to get home again if things don’t work out for them rather than people who cannot afford the fare to get back.

A sign of that which is to come? First a power grab of devolved powers, now a dictat to prevent public bodies from deciding with whom they are happy to do business. Presumably, in order to attract new trading partners, irregardless of human rights abuses.

Is this indicative of the 'take back control' agenda, where all power and control will be vested in Westminster?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/israel-boycott-local-councils-public-bodies-and-student-unions-to-be-banned-from-shunning-israeli-a6874006.html

Perhaps these questions should be answered by the
Pied Piper, Mr Farage , ohh sorry he can’t he is nowhere to be seen !

Interesting piece in the paper today about the farmer who is supplying asparagus for the royal wedding saying he will go bust as he can't get anyone to pick his asparagus.
Never mind I expect we can import asparagus from Albania.
Im sorry I don't think I am alone, I can't be bothered to read long cut n paste articles.

Maizie d

Who or 'what' is Steve Analyst / Emporers New Clothes?

Who or 'what' is Dropbox / Mark Byrne?

Which Party does ' Party Members Project Media Resources' belong to/relate to?

You must know all about them so I am interested to understand why you chose to put links up to them.