Regret it Brexit?

Welsh wife

"Several of the leaders of other EU countries do not want a federal state and that is not what is being discussed at the moment. A European army is not on the cards either - more co-operation between forces yes and a number of countries concentrating on what they are good at or have the expertise in and then pooling resources when needed. "
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A point made often but I have never had a response as to how that fits with Junkers last ' State of the Union' address ?

Junker called for the EU to have functioning defence union by 2025. etc.

Greater control over Eurozone Finances and backs the idea of 'all' states using the Euro. He wants 'all' states to join the European Banking Union. He wants to set up a European Labour Authority and also wants governments to give up veto rights in areas such as corporate taxation and VAT harmonization efforts and a new financial transaction tax.etc. etc.

Some call it a plan for an EU Army ( albeit supported by NATO but that causes issues in some minds) and the continuing pathway to a Federal Europe which is the goal of the Arch Federalists such as Junker , Verhofstatd & Co.

Gerispriner your loss. I for one want to read as much as I can on all sides of the debate.

MaizieD Not that I owe you an explanation but I will give you one. I simply failed to copy the link when I copied the info. It was late at night and I had other things that were more important to deal with.

When I get the time I will find the info and provide the link.

I can’t believe anybody who has followed the British news for the last few years DOESN'T think that Brexit is all about party politics!

Cameron agreed to idea of a Referendum on EU membership to avoid a Conservative party split.

In 2013, besieged by the increasingly assertive anti-European Union wing of his own Conservative Party, Mr. Cameron made a promise intended to keep a short-term peace among the Tories before the 2015 general election: If re-elected, he would hold an in-or-out referendum on continued British membership in the bloc.

But what seemed then like a relatively low-risk ploy to deal with a short-term political problem has metastasized into an issue that could badly damage Britain’s economy, influence the country’s direction for generations — and determine Mr. Cameron’s political fate.

www.nytimes.com/2016/06/22/world/europe/david-cameron-brexit-european-union.html

As I said before he did not say an amalgamated military force but one where each state had their own specialities and a working together - much as they do more - but at the moment almost every state tries to replicate things - it has been pointed out that this is watering things down rather than concentrating expertise.
It would take a big shift as far as the banks go and this idea has probably got to do with Brexit because the U.K. will no longer be able to be the clearing house for the Euro as it is now.

I find there is not enough time to read everything if normal life is to continue - therefore probably similar to Geri I am far from able to read everything - I do tend to select my sites or footage and like to watch the EU parliament and also U.K. Parliamentary committees.

I totally agree Gerispringer,if post are too long and protracted it takes away from the pace & flow of the subject, fine if one wants to sit an exam,but for an opinions forum can sometimes be a bit tedious albeit very knowledgeable and informative

Bridgeit I disagree I like to read long or short post. It's down to individual choice. Information and balance great stuff no matter how long the post.

Yes absolutely,but sometimes G netters want to dip in and out with only a short time to spare & if it’s too lengthy one can lose the initial point.

Pheraps we could have a distinction in the thread title which I have suggested before.

I should have perhaps tried that when I started this thread which I am pleased to see has been quite popular

A distinction in the thread title sound a good idea.

On balance it seems most people are happy with the way they voted, which obviously leaves many wishing they hadn’t. However we seem to have acquired a lot more information on here than we were ever given by the politicians.

Gerispringer wrote:

^Interesting piece in the paper today about the farmer who is supplying asparagus for the royal wedding saying he will go bust as he can't get anyone to pick his asparagus.
Never mind I expect we can import asparagus from Albania.^

Robots don't do well with soft produce and the initial cost of a robot is high. British workers won't accept the discipline of harvest time, or move to where the work is.

Mostlyharmless said: I can’t believe anybody who has followed the British news for the last few years DOESN'T think that Brexit is all about party politics!

In context the comments were about the NE and the brexit vote. MaizieD paraphrasing that it was a response to Conservative policies since the 1980's.

The point I am making is that the Brexit vote did not go along party political lines. Remain and leave voters were from cross party electorate.

Geri did it say how much he was offering to pay people to pick his asparagus? He can still employ people from the EU after Brexit, (he can employ them now,) after Brexit they will just have to apply for a work visa. No doubt he pays the going rate so no problem there.

Some years ago I worked with a group of people who use to go to Lincolnshire to pick onions and potatoes and other crops for the short season. They pick up good extra money - hard work but rewarding. That work fell off when some farmers started paying workers from other countries less than the going rate. Not all farmers you understand.

The same applies to people who work in some of the animal food processing factories. They use to take people on a day to day basis. Again that fell off with the employment of workers who took less than the going rate cash in hand.

The reality in some cases is very different than some portray.

allyg didn’t you read varian’s post yesterday? It clearly shows that Conservatives are much more likely to back Brexit.

Also this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/04/vast-majority-conservative-party-members-back-clean-brexit-nine/

In principle I do agree with a 2nd election once we know what Brexit will truly entail.However if we end up with a similar result it will have been a waste of time & money. So I guess we will have to bite the bullet, history will reveal wither or not it is the most spectacular mistake or a resoundingly brilliant outcome. It will probably be just as we are now , winners & losers, nothing new under the sun as the saying goes.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/16/from-royal-table-to-empty-fields-asparagus-farmer-faces-bust-over-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Story of asparagus farmer. He says EU workers don’t want to come and the locals don’t want seasonal work.

Just for those who demand links.

Perhaps instead of long posts which most people haven’t the time or inclination to read a short précis might suffice.

Channel 4 news tonight featured interviews with unionists in NI who are now for the first time in their lives "thinking the unthinkable" - that brexit could result in a united Ireland. The DUP does not reflect their shifting position.

In the wake of a comment from the DUP leader that she would probably leave the country if there was a united Ireland, several prominent Northern Ireland unionists have said that they would stay in such a scenario. Arlene Foster made the comment during an interview with the comedian Patrick Kielty for a BBC documentary in which Mr Kielty explored the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement and the murder of his father by loyalist terrorists. Mr Kielty asked Mrs Foster “if the majority did want to join the rest of Ireland how would it feel to be a unionist, outside of the UK?” Alluding to years of polling which has shown strong support for the Union, the former first minister replied: “First of all, I don’t think it’s going to happen. “It’s a very hypothetical situation to be in but if it were to happen, I’m not sure that I would be able to continue to live here, I would feel so strongly about it. I would probably have to move.”

inews.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionists-northern-ireland-united-arlene-foster/

Hi Geri thanks for the interesting post about the asparagus farmer.

Links are a request not a demand. It helps to understand and back up debate. If you don't want to show links...fine. I am sure people will find what your saying less supported but that's Ok too. No pressure for links if it's an issue for you.

Mostlyharmless re "also this".

My point about the cross party electorate is that the Brexit vote, remain or leave, was cross party voters.
This does not necessarily mean that those who normally vote Lib Dem, UKIP, Green, Conservative or labour etc who voted remain or leave are members of any political party, they merely vote for a given party as preference.

The link you gave was to this article about Conservative party members and labour party members. Not the entire electorate who voted remain or leave at the referendum and which party they normally at a local or general election would vote for.

Jack Maidment, political correspondent
4 JANUARY 2018 • 12:01AM
The vast majority of Conservative Party members want a clean Brexit while almost nine in 10 are opposed to a referendum on the final Brexit deal, a major poll has found.

A survey of the nation’s party members shows that only a quarter of grassroots Tories want to see a soft Brexit with just 25 per cent favouring Britain staying in the Single Market and 27 per cent backing remaining in the Customs Union.

It also revealed 78 per cent of Labour’s rank and file want a second referendum while almost nine in 10 want a soft Brexit.

The desire for a vote on the final deal among the party’s membership is likely to pile pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to adopt the policy.

IMO bringing party politics into Brexit is the main problem. We can safely assume that all members of UKIP voted to leave but with all the other party members or supporters there'll have been a mixture of remainers and brexiters.

This should be about getting the best possible deal for the country as a whole and parties trying to score points and make political gains is putting a successful Brexit at risk.

As for the asparagus farmer who has no one to harvest his crop, perhaps those able bodied out of work recipients of benefits should contribute to society for the money they receive.

Katya Adler, BBC Europe Editor, said the real reason behind the EU's continuous Brexit threats is that Brussels is "very worried" the UK will become a "super competitive country" on their doorstep.

Mostlyharmless "allyg didn’t you read varian’s post yesterday? It clearly shows that Conservatives are much more likely to back Brexit."

Sadly no I couldn't it is much too small.

That's something to look forward too isn't it Joelsnan