Regret it Brexit?

Open borders was part of the concern but most sensible people, leavers and remainers, know that uncontrolled immigration, and mass unskilled immigration to the UK is a foolish, and given the times in which we live, a dangerous policy.

That is ridiculous, Day6. We've never had 'uncontrolled immigration' from non EU countries and we have always had the ability to control EU 'immigration' by sending back those not in work and not self supporting. We just didn't chose to use the powers we had.
The drop in EU workers coming here since the Ref doesn't seem to have meant a rush to supply their place with native staff. I don't suppose Leavers noticed the reports of food rotting in the fields last year because of no-one to harvest it? Or the huge shortfall of skilled staff in the NHS as a result of EU staff leaving our country where they no longer feel welcome? (One result of which being that, at the height of the Windrush scandal the govt was actually offering cash incentives to Caribbean nurses to come and work here)

This ridiculous obsession with 'immigrants' has not only cost us dearly with the Brexit vote which has caused division in the UK which will take years to heal whatever solution is eventually achieved, but also has allowed the harsh and unfeeling Home Office regime which treats innocent people like lawbreakers and causes them untold distress.

All for the sake of what?

P.S the appeal to 'all sensible people' is a rhetorical trick as old as the hills. Designed to make listeners feel superior to dissenters from the message. It's as well to be aware that one can be perfectly 'sensible' yet disagree profoundly with what is being said.

Perhaps one of the reasons that EU workers are leaving the country because they don't feel welcome, is the constant rhetoric that all those who voted for Brexit, voted for that reason.

That wasn't why I voted to leave.

It's telling that the areas with highest amounts of immigration (London for example) voted overwhelmingly Remain. Immigration is not a problem to people who live among immigrants as they can see the reality, not the fear.

That wasn't why I voted to leave.

Whether you intended it or not, Smileless that has been a result of the Leave vote.

I know three Leave voters who quickly realised that they had made a terrible mistake. Two of them were left wingers who voted against the EU because it promotes Capitalism. They were horrified to realise that they were associated with the racial abuse that the Leave vote unleashed. They don’t dare tell anyone they voted Leave now and would definitely vote Remain if they had the chance.

I voted Remain and now I see the mess we have trying to find a solution to the northern Irish border and the huge drop in sterling I feel even more strongly that we should Remain. Leaving will be a total disaster and I worry for our children and grandchildren's future.

I disagree Maizie. I don't doubt that for some the belief is that the leave vote has given them a licence for racial abuse and this is making people feel unwanted, but the constant reference by remainers, that the desire to leave the EU is based on racism is also making them feel unwanted.

This isn't a result of the leave vote, it's the result of some using the result to propagate their own views, political or racial.

I have no problem with declaring that my vote was to leave mostlyharmless because I know my vote had nothing whatsoever to do with racism.

Perhaps this is why it serves some remainers to continually raise the issue of racism being at the core of the decision to Brexit. Still pushing for a second referendum, they hope that those who voted to leave will be feeling guilty and change their vote.

Many people did point to immigration and all it entails as being the reason they voted to leave but I appreciate that this was not the reason that many other people chose to vote that way. However it gives those people who are racists what they see as permission to be openly abusive.
We can now see that the U.K. actually needs some immigrants to fill jobs where the U.K. has failed to train enough people - cutting places at universities for certain courses and stopping the bursaries for nurses was very effective in cutting that recruitment. So the relatively rich U.K. wishes to benefit from the training costs other poorer countries have spent training these people.
There are also jobs which British people will not do -vets will not take the jobs in abattoirs where they are needed to oversee the operation - at the moment most of these posts are filled by Spanish vets who are more amenable to the work.
When people from the Caribbean came to U.K. all those years ago they were welcomed and they were very willing workers despite the fact of the difficulty of getting accommodation.
These are all PEOPLE suffering in the U.K. - the country shows sympathy with refugees in war torn countries and rightly so - but the people in U.K. need sympathy for the worry and disruption to their lives or those of their families and of course some have been wrongly deported back to countries they know nothing about.

The economic consequences of Brexit is what concerns me most. Car manufacturers are expected to move production away from U.K., banking will be transferred to mainland Europe, science research and development will be cut back, trade generally will be more difficult and expensive. Food and farming will suffer from fewer migrant workers to harvest crops.
NHS and peace in Northern Ireland are both worries too.
I voted Remain for future generations, my children and grandchildren.

I quite agree welshwife that we shouldn’t be encouraging qualified doctors and nurses from poorer countries to come here to staff our NHS.
The NHS should be training new medical staff in this country and what on Earth was the Government thinking when they removed bursaries for trainee nurses?

Yes and no

I feel we were really led up the proverbial garden path by the brexiteers.

MostlyH I agree about the worries of businesses going to Europe and things such as access to the medicines agency and Euratom but these things all appear to be ignored by people such as Liam Fox who has in fact no trade deals lined up and is unfortunately unlikely to get any good ones in the near future.
None of these problems are ever quoted as causing the country difficulty afterwards and the fact that much trade will be denied to the country if compliance with other countries is not maintained -it needs to be in line with EU regulations as so many other countries line up with them.
No definite advantages have been quoted for when the U.K. does leave - it is all pie in the sky hopes and aspirations.
Interesting listening to the European debate yesterday about the new budget - not taking effect for a couple of years - giving ideas about what they should be concentrating on and emphasising and how money will be managed in countries where the grants in the past have not been used for the stated purpose when they were given.

No ]

Yes

I voted to Brexit and the only thing I regret is that the government has not got on with it fast enough. First we had to have an extra period staying in now government says we are coming out of Customs Union but still trying to remain by back door. Out means out to pursue new trade deals. Nastiness in parliament seems largely due to remainder's not accepting we are coming out. Anna Soubry comes to mind.

By the way there are now more nurses places at University than before Brexit vote and more are set to be put in place each year going forward. However a pity the old train on the job SEN nurse role has gone as this is surely what is needed.

There maybe more places but since the bursary was removed there have been less applicants - they are in fact asking these young women to work in hospitals for nothing and it infact pay for the privilege!

So far the countries which were mentioned as being desperate to do trade deals with a ‘free’ U.K. have pointed out that they are more interested in doing deals with the EU before they look at the U.K. and also they are seeing the U.K. as a weak country which will need to fall in line with the agreement they want and not stick to the regulations it (the U.K.) has at the moment - which are more stringent. Examples of this are relaxed food regulations and use of hormones and pesticides at the moment banned in U.K. many of these countries also want U.K. to grant free access to its people - during the referendum campaign Priti Patel actually said that there would be free access to immigrants from the Indian sub continent after Brexit. I cannot see how people who are against immigration will be more at ease with that than free immigration from the EU.
The position of the UK within the EU has taken decades to get to the present position and there are many legal agreements which take time to disengage with - hence what appears to be a long time in leaving but in reality is a very short time.

It is undeniable that immigration was a major issue in the EU referendum.

No-one suggests that all those who voted Leave are racists, but it is pretty certain that all the racists voted Leave.

Time to move on Varian !

Brexit is now being thrashed out in the corridors of power,
The more pressing debate is to the final form it will take.

'Thrashing' is about the right word for it.

And it is beyond doubt that any final form it might take will leave the country poorer, and more divided than it has ever been in my lifetime.

No, it’s not beyond doubt at all.

Agree lemon, no countries leaders ever, ever say what they mean, they all sit on the fence until the last minute. They’re all waiting to see what sort of deal we get and how it will affect them individually. The next few years will be rocky but in the long run we’ll be better off.

In the long run we are all dead as the economist Keynes famously said.

It's there in black and white in the governments own figures, lemon. But you just go on shutting your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears... and trying to boss people about on this forum if it gives you comfort.

I think it is such a shame that the Remain supporters have such a negative view about how we will fare post Brexit.

The predicted 'doom and gloom' which was expected to happen immediately after the referendum result was known, didn't happen. Yes, obviously we are not out yet, but there is much to be optimistic about.

Our economy is thriving as is manufacturing. Unemployment is at it's lowest level for decades.

Once we are out, as well as saving the billions we have to pay the EU every year, we will have the rest of the world to trade with, America, Canada, the Far East etc.

Another bonus is that we now have a US President who has NOT threatened us that if we dared to vote Leave we would be 'at the back of the queue' in trading with his country.

Another reason to hope that there aren't any awful violent demonstrations from the rent-a-mob brigade when Donald Trump visits in July.

No - we now have an American president who says if you wish to trade with us you will accept all our hormone injected meat and chlorine washed chicken and lower food standards than those you currently enjoy or no deal. The Indian, Chinese and South American countries have made it quite clear they consider trade with the EU far more important than trade with U.K. - Canada the same - and if any slack then they will consider theUK and will do no deals until they see the deals with the EU.
Most of these countries - including Australia and India have said they will only consider a deal if it includes free movement of people - or unlimited visas for their people as part of the deal. It all sounds so good!