I am on a roll at the moment, so sorry to hog.
Gerispringer- love this.
You say " vastly more unequal society by those few at the top of the pike- it’s austerity for the majority of us and that’s not stopping anytime soon. As for manufacturing - it’s less than 10% of our economy - we just don’t make stuff anymore - Mrs T saw to that."
Can I take your first point about an unequal society and the wealth is held by a few at the top. You are of course quite correct, however can I put some balance on this.
Have you any view of what an equal society might look like? I spent some small time in Russia on business before they decided that communism didn't work and that the only decent life for people was within the Capitalist system.
Now I should say at the point that I do realise that Capitalism is not a perfect system by any means, but if you can come up with something else at this point in the development of the modernity then I really would like to genuinely hear it.
Back to an equal society. If one uses Communism as perhaps the only example that people turn to in these sorts of debates, then let me tell you what I saw. Equality and the redistribution of wealth are two very different things in my view.
Although I should quickly say, during the revolution in Russia, the state took all the wealth including land and buildings. Now this was in 1912 the world was a different place then, and we cannot judge the past from the present, that is the first rule of sociology, you can comment and be shocked and amazed by the actions of people in the past, but you cannot judge, to do that one would have to be in that temporality which is impossible.
So with that proviso, the redistribution of wealth in Russia lead to everyone being brought down to a basic level of living. The majority were not uplifted to the level of the wealthy. How far do you think the collective wealth of the minority would go if spread across the whole population, and that is not what would happen anyway.
If you own your own home that would become a property of the state, yes, you would be considered wealthy. If you had a car that would have to become property of the people and you would share it with others who had no transport. If you had three bedrooms and only used one, then two would be available for those who sleep on the streets, or in a B & B. Now this is the reality of redistribution of wealth, it means us as well as the very rich at the top. The poor are those without anything, no home, no food, no education, no work, no computer as we all have.
The reality of this sort of idealism is every one is brought to a lower level and that means even those who have had to work their socks off to provide for their families, get a house in the hope that they would leave something for their children. Home ownership would cease.
This brings me to the point about the young of today not being able to afford their own homes, how many of us had to live with our parents for years whilst we saved for a deposit when we first got married. How many of us had two jobs or four in our case we both worked two jobs to get that deposit.
What do people want today. No one gives us anything we have to work for it that is what I was taught. But today, the Government is blamed for everything, someone caught a virus, the Government didn't do enough. I am a student with a student loan, well! You want to go to Uni how do you think they pay the Lecturers.
Do kids really need to live away from home to get an education no they don't. The university system is archaic, and definitely needs to be re thought.
Most minor degrees could be achieved in one year if they worked like Industry that is 9 to 5 every day, rather than perhaps two one hour lecturers and ten weeks terms. Nonsense. But if you want that pay for it, it's your future your income, not mine, why should I pay for it through the Government?
As for Margaret Thatcher, one of her policies, allowed thousands of people who would never have had the opportunity to own their own home buy their council houses. For thousands of our fellow citizens this set them up for a secure future and gave them more money in the property than they ever dreamed of before that opportunity.
Do you know the reason for that, because it was becoming too expensive to maintain housing stocks by local councils. Hence the housing associations one see's now.
As for the destruction of our manufacturing industries. We simply were not at that time competitive and the EU tariff systems had a lot to do with that, as well as the self engradisment of the Trade Unions, who had not developed not evolved. They were essential absolutely essential before legislation on health and safety in the work place, before basic wage, before the protection of industrial tribunals, but became victims of their own success, by getting those basic protections into legislation for the working people.
What do you do when your job is done, retire gracefully or find a new resondetra which they had failed to do in the 1980's.
Manufacturing industries were the victims of globalisation, were we had to compete with cheap labour cost across the world. Our wages were infinitely better than a lot of Countries and the added value just wasn't there in order to compete. Hence things made in Taiwan, China etc.
You will see the results of globalisation in America where the rust belt for one example, literally, has disintegrated communities with all the resulting social problems when the work move to other Countries where the labour cost are lower. This is why Trump is bringing in his higher tariffs, he is not going to let this happen again on his watch to the American people. He is protecting his people and isn't that what all Governments should do, it is what our Government is trying to do.This has happened around the World, ever moving manufacturing companies seeking cheap labour sources.
Why do you imagine that we are developing robots, because we are running out of cheap labour in the next fifty years, someone has to sew the endless throw away garments that we insist on buying, or the plastic shoes, couches etc.
Closing pits where men crawl on the bellies to hack fuel from holes in the earth, how primitive is that. No man or woman should be asked to do work like that in a modern society. They talk about camaraderie if they hadn't had that level of self support, their lives would have been just unbearable.
So both times we have had women Prime Ministers they have both faced massive change challenges, all essential to the progress of this Country into a modern future. The very least we can do is support it.
Change is inevitable, we can do it in two ways in my view, support it and make it work or resist it and be dragged screaming and kicking into the future. I know which I prefer. If you leave a political void, the types that step in are not for our way of life believe me.
