Unintended consequences of brexit

I find the fact that you cannot fathom that many of us feel European, more than bizarre. Very proud that our new Head of Council/Maire is Belgian, one of his colleagues is French, and a predecessor born in Istanbul (our Vicar) ...
And yes, I do know Brits who consider themselves Yorkshire first, and even specific part of Yorkshire, same for many Counties or UK regions. Reminds me of tne Six Towns of Stoke area we lived in ...
Maizie, Varian and orhers, oh I admire your tenacity and patience ... when facing this verbal d. and the nodders that follow and approve. You deserve platinum medals x

England second half is on. Missed most of the first half, so bye for now.

Your right our grandchildren, and further on their grandchildren will make their own choices. But right now it is down to us, to try to make the right choices that they can build on.

One day it will be down to their common sense and judgement to build on what we leave them or not. It's a bit like our wills, we can leave them the house, they can choose what they do with it: sell it and spend, spend, spend, or they can invest, to secure their future, or buy another house to improve their life style or they can stuff the money in their mattress. I know which I would want them to do.

Odd in that I don't know why that would be important.

I didn't really expect you to understand, Ally

MaizieD, I find your comment about being a "European" odd. Odd in that I don't know why that would be important. Obviously it might have had an influence on me had I had relatives who were European, but as that was not the case then, it never entered into my decision.

I do now have in-law's and grandchildren who were born in Europe. My concern is the life that they are living is under constant threat, and that worries me. The UK leaving the EU will have no influence on their lives whatsoever, they may have to get a visa to visit and visa versa, but that is no big issue. I worry that they are going to end up in the middle of a financial crash, that everything they have worked for will be lost, and that there might be a degree of anarchy in the Country in which they live. Those are my fears. As for money being taken out of the UK, I would like them to transfer their small savings into the UK to protect it. They might need it to start again in the future. Very real fears for their life style, health services, education and work availability. Europe is standing still and has been since 2008.

Me too Nigglynellie. The common market, is what I thought I vote for.

Mostly, I do a lot of family history. One day I will be someone being researched, nothing wrong with knowing that might happen is there? Nor is it wrong to want my descendants to live a good life. Nor is it wrong to feel pride in one's country and want a high standard of living for all, with opportunities for all, a society that has work, and social and personal development balanced.

I have no idea what that will look like, I can only imagine how the twenty first century will unfold, one thing I do know is that we have to be able to make quick and self governed decisions. We have to be able to fund and sustain housing, finance, health care, education, it needs money, and lot's of it. Success as a nation will bring a good standard of living. Free trade, unrestricted sovereign government with a democratic Parliamentary system will secure it and guard it for the future. We can't have what we can't afford and
money will only come from being able to trade freely.

You mention that you want your grandchildren to:
"have the same opportunities and freedoms to work, travel, be educated, own homes, have free health treatment that I have had. I fear Brexit will make this far more difficult, if not impossible for future generations".

This fear, that these opportunities will cease, is where we disagree. I have no fear, that having more money coming into the Country, rather than going out, can do anything but aid our health services, which are not free, but that's another story, or diminish the ability for people to own their own home, or travel freely, or work where they wish. Why would leaving the EU prevent that? The need for a visa to go into the EEA Country's will be no different than a visa to go to any non EEA Country. Work visa's, to work any where will not prevent that work being available or applicants applying to live and work in other Country's. We do know now that working practices are going to change, skills sets are going to be very high tech, we have already discussed the possibility of the salary for all systems. So much will have to change, but better controlled and planned change than a forced change from a bad position, which could happen when the EU collapses, which I fear it will.

The mindset needs to be about how we will work in the future, the skill sets, training and re-training. Just heards about the mass data "clouds" that will have an artificially intelligent front end to facilitate ultra user friendly interactive facilities, not just in retail, or consumer area's but in modern even futuristic medicine. The world is going to look different and be different in fifty years time, it is hard to look that far ahead with the knowledge of now, but we have to start that change somewhere, and be able to fund research that will constantly move us forward, standing still is never an option. My sense and that of other leave voters is that Brexit, will be the beginning of a secure and prosperous future for the UK. That does not mean we wish the EU anything but good, but they too will have to change, for I do fear that the EU is presiding over the destruction of the EEA country's, and the consequences will be dramatic and sudden.

I voted to stay in the European Economic Community in 1975, because I thought that it was a trading block, not a takeover bid! Had I known then what I know now, I would have voted very differently.

I kind of feel that it would have been better to let our grandchildren make their own choice.

I voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 not only because of the economic advantages but also because I felt that it was time that we acknowledged we were European and we should be part of it, not hovering on the fringes. Or hanging on the coat tails of the USA. I don't feel any differently about it today.

Is it really about you being thanked or your efforts being appreciated nigglie?
Does that mean you are an activist?

I think we have all expressed our hopes for future generations, mostlyharmless, not one person has made one comment about their own well being. If hoping that your grandchildren will one day appreciate your efforts to protect them from a European version of the USSR is the wrong thing to do, then I plead guilty.

We are anonymous on here, Ally. I don't choose to disclose anything about myself.

and the preservation of a democratic Parliamentary system.

Well, that one looks to be a non-runner at the moment; parliament having just passed a Bill to emasculate itself.

It’s amazing this need to be proved right among Brexiteers.

Our grandchildren will undoubtedly thank us

I am proud to say, I was one of the 'Cromwellian Brexiteers" fighting for change, and liberty, and the preservation of a democratic Parliamentary system. I believe it will be a good future, one I believe in, one I voted for and did as much as I could to support, although I will not be here to see it, my descendants will, and I hope they will be proud that their Ancestor, was a Brexiteer.

I’m afraid I just hope that my children and grandchildren (and others) have the same opportunities and freedoms to work, travel, be educated, own homes, have free health treatment that I have had. I fear Brexit will make this far more difficult, if not impossible for future generations.

Being proved right or wrong makes it all about you. That seems very strange to me. My concern is for the welfare and prosperity of future generations, not about what they think of me.

Another excellent post Ag, I couldn't agree with you more.
History tells us that each and every attempt to herd people and countries under one umbrella from the Roman Empire to the USSR always, eventually, come tumbling down, often with terrible consequences. Eventually people cry freedom and the EU will/is no exception.
No it won't be easy, the furious MEP's Commissioners, will see to that, but at the end of the day I have been and still am totally convinced that X years down the line it will be proved to have done the right thing and that one day our grandchildren will undoubtedly thank us!
I think what has been glaringly and rather alarmingly obvious, that over past 40 years our politicians have been so in thrall to the EU that they have virtually forgotten, or have not even known, how to govern!! How surreptitious and creeping this situation has been, with none of us any the wiser, till?!! This could be the reason for our negotiators apparent inability to concoct a cohesive plan of action! I think this situation is beginning to improve and we are beginning to assert our position more effectively- Galileo?! Hopefully it will continue.

I have yet to see a single fact from the brexiters. It is all opinion, formed by UKIP, the EDL, the BNP, Putin and the billionaires who own the right wing media. Repeating propaganda and lies does not make them true.

Of course there are people who are not interested in politics, know nothing about the EU, are bored with brexit on the news and would rather "let them get on with it" while they watch football or Love Island.

However numerous polls have shown that the majority who have an opinion want us to Remain in the EU. If this disastrous brexit actually goes ahead, and I beleive it could, the cost in terms of the economy, morale, and the diminished place of our country in the world will be huge.

It may take generations to recover if it ever does, and that will affect my children and grandchildren, even although I and they had the good sense to vote Remain. If there was a way of making the leave voters pay the cost of brexit by taxing them, I wonder how many would own up to their folly?

There is something about an organisation that is intent on creating sameness, homogenising peoples, races, cultures, that must be questioned, or do we walk blindly into being absorbed.

Made me think irresistably of the Kalergi Plan, Ally

^ There might even one day be one language, if the EU is allowed it's way, or did that one bite the dust! Esperanto was it called?^

Esperanto was invented in 1887. Hardly as a sinister EU tool for homogenisation...

www.britannica.com/topic/Esperanto

OMG! Just astounding!

Regular Brexit updates are an excellent idea Allygran, just the facts without opinions as to whether they're good or bad.

POGS

MaizieD I am interested, you clearly are very well educated, and available on a daily basis to be on Gransnet, are you retired, or do you work? Your Politics are very up-to-date hence your quip about the Kalergi Plan, a very far left view of my post.

How dare you MaizieD. Not even going to sully myself in engaging with that post.

MaizieD, How is Brexit going to change your life?

And no I don't think it will be easy. The difference between us, is that some people, both remain and leave voters believe we have what it takes to do this, that we are the most successful trading and financial Nation in the World, we have the skills, the confidence and the need, to move into the twenty first century, which demands change, technological, working practices, education, social structures etc. Others both remain and leave voters, think we don't have what it takes, and don't believe that the twenty first century will be different.It really boils down to this I think. Of course some people do not like change, others embrace it.

In a democracy though, it is the right thing to do once a majority vote in two elections has been to leave the EU, for all to get behind that decision, and make it happen, for the benefit of the whole of the country.

History will judge not the outcome of the two elections. It will judge by remain or leave struggle after the decision. It will judge from a future position 30 years and beyond from now,when we will know what happened to the EEA/EU. The future created by Brexit for them, will judge on who voted remain, who voted leave in the family, which Politicians etc. It will be something like I believe, how we view the Civil War now, we accept that the changes formed by those people then gave us the lives we live now, but we are also interested in did someone in our family fight for change, or did they stick with the establishment for which we could now read the EU. I am proud to say, I was one of the 'Cromwellian Brexiteers" fighting for change, and liberty, and the preservation of a democratic Parliamentary system. I believe it will be a good future, one I believe in, one I voted for and did as much as I could to support, although I will not be here to see it, my descendants will, and I hope they will be proud that their Ancestor, was a Brexiteer.

It will not be easy. But a lot easier than sorting a future from the rubble and destruction and depleted populations and aftermath of a war. This is a democratic revolution, how great is that. Just so sad, that more people in positions of power, or connect to the EU cannot see that this is not about them, it is about everybody, and it is the future beyond them/us.

The majority of remain voters in the country that I speak with are true democrats, they say, just get on with it. We voted, but we are not adverse to a future outside of the EU bubble. We can do it, it will not be easy, nothing is on this scale, but we are behind the Government. This is what most people other than some remain voters as we see on the news, who believe they can overturn a democratic process by any means available, and political activist of course.

Those who say the Government is doing nothing, go onto the Government websites, look at the negotiations that are agreed, look at the laws that are already being transferred after the "Bill" was approved. Just because you don't know about what is going on in the working area, does not mean that the information is not available it is, nor by not seeking it out can we say it isn't happening, it is.

If one thing should change in my view, we should have a Brexit update, on TV and Radio on what has happened that week in the negotiations. Not a debate just a report on facts, we negotiated on ten area's this week those were, and this is where we are at. Brief but letting people know just how much work is going on.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.