Should the Railways be Nationalised? Or Whats good about privatised railways?

I agree with Welshwife that there should be government subsidies to bring rail travel into line with other European countries. Fairer and more transparent prices together with a seat for all those who have paid for one!

I'm not sure of going whole hog and re nationalising them altogether as this will mean a huge increase in the already huge public sector together with all the sick pay, pensions, extra holidays and union influences that brings with it. Not a popular view I know, but that's my view anyway.

I know we always joke about Mussolini making the trains run on time but Italy does seem to manage plenty of trains with reasonable fares.

And Hitler (sorry I know I will be told that the first person to mention Hitler has lost the argument, but he really did boast about the trains)

I am nether for or against but is the cost of renationalising our railways worth it ? I am trying to make informed decisions but it is a bit of a minefield to get to grips with. I certainly have no remembrance of the railways being much better under nationalisation and I wonder how much subsidy should the tax payer give to rail commuters , what percentage of tax payers use the rail network?

Renationalisation of the UK rail system is at odds with EU is it not?

What do those who believe in renationalisation of the UK railways think about. ' The 4th Railway Package ' adopted by the EU ?

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/4th-railway-package/

3. Opening domestic passenger markets
The 4th railway package includes the proposal to open up domestic passenger railways to new entrants and services from December 2019. Companies would be able either to offer competing services, such as a new train service on a particular route, or to bid for public service rail contracts through tendering. The proposed changes would make competitive tendering mandatory for public service rail contracts in the EU."

POGS

Before you start musing on subsidy levels would you read the CRESC report I have repeatedly linked to. The railways are already heavily subsidised with very little return to the Treasury but big returns to shareholders in the TOCs.

Maizie d

"The railways are already heavily subsidised with very little return to the Treasury but big returns to shareholders in the TOCs."

In my 'musings' did I say there was no subsidy involved already?

What do you think about the EU' 4th Railway Package '?

I find it bemusing the UK ' could possibly ' one day renationalise the entire rail system whilst the EU head further towards privatisation/competition.

As far as I can formulate a view privatised rail in the EU, in countries such as Italy , is fairly successful but the UK has too many restrictions/too much control over the privatised companies and we have a problem because of this.

I admit I am trying to establish the pros and cons but I am hopefully not blinded by politics but a pragmatist to commerce.

I have travelled by rail all my life- I don't drive and I had family living in different parts of the country so saw lots of different lines. Before privatisation it was better in many ways, but of course things were very different, so comparisons are difficult. I don't believe government money should be paid to companies who use it to pay large dividends to shareholders. I do think the experiences of the East Coast line show that there is good reason to think that a publicly owned railway is not only ideologically but financially desirable. There is also the green question. Providing good rail connections, with reasonably priced fares could reduce road traffic, improve air quality and help the environment.

As far as I can formulate a view privatised rail in the EU, in countries such as Italy , is fairly successful

The only train I travelled on in Italy had ancient rolling stock with plastic seats (like seating in a meeting venue; utterly basic). It was cheap, but understandably so...

Most of Europe has subsidised, nationalised railways that are well run. Why can't we?

At least we agree about something, Joelsnan

Maizie d

Perhaps you were travelling on an unprivatised rail service at the time ?

Out of interest if the price of the ticket was reflective of the condition of the train would you go for price to the customer over quality of stock here in the UK e.g plastic seating as you describe on the Italian train ?.

Have you no comment to make or an opinion concerning the European Union ' 4th Railway Package '.?

Have you no comment to make or an opinion concerning the European Union ' 4th Railway Package '.?

I've been busy since you asked that question; no time for a considered response.

The train in Italy was in 2011, Southern Italy. No idea if it was privatised or not. It was jolly uncomfortable, though.

On the other hand, I've travelled by train in France and Holland, much more comfortable but still very reasonably priced in comparison with UK trains.

I travel in Italy on trains frequently. This is in the north, and the trains are double decker ones and very comfortable and about 1/3 price they would be here. Over 65s automatically get a discount - none of this buy a railcard stuff.

Gerrispringer

Interesting. Are they private or nationalised services or a mixture?

I suppose as you instigated the question re nationalisation what do you think about the European Union ' The 4th Railway Package'?

Trenitalia is the primary train operator in Italy. A subsidiary of Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, itself owned by the Italian government, it was established in 2000 following a European Union directive on the deregulation of rail transport. So basically its owned by the Italian government through its own company.

I am no expert on the 4th Railway package, having only read one article on it. I think its to harmonise safety standards etc which is not a bad thing. Even if different companies have to bid for franchises, these companies can be state owned or a mix of state- private. Its ironic that many of our private train companies are actually owned by European state enterprises, so our high fares and taxpayer subsidies to our rail services are going towards us funding the cheaper services enjoyed on the continent. Instead of blanket renationalisation, there is also the option of having community owned transport systems in a local area, as is the case for some bus companies, and I believe one rail line, whereby a private company does not run for shareholder profits but all profits are reinvested in the services.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44194146

Anyone who thinks our privatised railways are marvellous should read about the latest c*ck up introducing new timetables.

There is something inherently potty in introducing competition into national services, like the railway.

When the arriva train I was on got stuck in the Severn tunnel, they had to wait for an engine that they owned to come and shunt us out, even though there were engines owned by other companies available, which would have been costly. It was apparently cheaper to wait (and reimburse other companies for their delays) than to use a "foreign" engine.

That is seriously potty in my book.