Repeal the 8th

annie that’s very sad. Lots of sad stories behind this thread.

Yes of course it’s sad to loose a wanted baby. None is denying that. Of course women who loose a baby talk about it as a baby, as the potential child they wanted to bring up. A woman who has a termination will say she’s had a termination, that helps her come to terms with that experience. The language use reflects the circumstances.

My mother remarried after the war and sadly wasn't able to carry a baby full term. She had several miscarriages, some early on others later on,/nearly viable. These days, a simple problem easily rectified, then, an unresolvable condition. Later she told me that each one was a lost baby and mourned, not for what he/she might have been but for who they individually were.

It is easier to speak of ‘a fetus’ I understand this, but for me even though I support abortion ,not on demand, they are babies , it would be difficult for a woman to say my baby was aborted so she chooses to say ‘I had a termination’ but I really believe those who support abortion do not want to speak of a baby.

I think the difference between calling 'it' a baby or foetus tends to depend on whether it's wanted. From the moment I fell pregnant with DD I referred to her as 'baby'. But during a pregnancy scare where I was unsure of what I would do, I refused to think of a potential baby, not wanting to get attached.

Abortion is always going to be a divisive topic, and I think that's a good thing. I fully support the woman's right to abortion before 24 weeks, and after provided there is a medical reason. However, there are some who advocate for abortion at any stage of pregnancy, regardless of the reason. That I disagree with, one there is the ability for that baby/foetus to sustain life independent of the mother I think that abortion should only be allowed for medical reasons. If we didn't have people questioning the morality of abortion it could lead to situations where women could request abortions at full-term. I know that's unlikely as most women would be attached to the baby then but that's what some people are advocating for. I think we live in a world now where scientific advancements have come so far, but just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should. Somethings need to be questioned to ensure we don't go too far.

I've NEVER heard of anyone advocating abortion on demand until 40 weeks ...can you show me evidence that theres a case for it?

The women of ireland have every right to celebrate. I cried watching a crowd of women find out the news. The relief and emotion was enormous.
They can finally feel like they have some control over their own bodies.
Because it was not just abortion. It was medical treatment when pregnant too.
They can celebrate no longer being seen as silent imcubators.

* Newmom* wow - best example of a straw dog argument I’ve seen for years - .utterly utterly ridiculous .

Jal how do you judge I think the distinction between the expression of relief and jubilation. What should the Yes have done? The fight for repeal was hard won - we cantt begin to imagine what the supporters had to through - spat at and called baby murderers in there own communities fir decades - they have every right to celebrate.

Paddyann- Fortunately it is not many people advocating for abortions at any stage. But in recently searching repeal the 8th, I came across a thread over on mn where some posters were stating they supported abortion 'at any stage for any reason' as they are 'properly' pro-choice. It appears there are some people (a minority) who believe that to be truly pro-choice, that it was what you have to support and if you don't then you aren't really pro-choice, it's bonkers but there are some who hold that point of view. I would put a link here but not sure I can link to mn?

Maryeliza- I have a feeling that you believe anyone who's view differs from yours in wrong. And you will just argue until people agree with you. I have my point of view, you have yours, others have theirs and that's fine. You don't have to challenge everything.

Some believe every woman who chooses to have an abortion is distressed, traumatised ,not so. For some A baby would be inconvenient so they get rid of it, some have several abortions.

All women are not victims .

Ffs ab why are you using the word ‘inconvenient’ ? Where’s your evidence base - yes I do know that some women have more than one abortion but I don’t know WHY and I’m not a misogynist so I don’t assume it’s because of it being ‘ inconvenient’. Real life is messy you know, none of us is perfect - so even if a woman isn’t as responsible as you might think she should be that’s still no reason for taking away her bodily autonomy and punishing her by forcing her to bring the pregnancy to term is it? I would much rather abortion were never necessary but that’s never going to happen ever so the choice of a safe abortion should be available without our passing judgement on the (assumed )reasons for it

Maryeliza, if you must use foul language in the guise of just use of initials do not use them when addressing me, I dislike vulgarity .

You are always passing judgement , always right, some do not think you are.

Newmom you are not the forum police - I’ll carry on posting my opinions on and challenging anything I want whenever I want for as long as I want and yes I do believe that som people’s opinions are wrong and I’m fully entitled to that belief. Your post put up a straw dog argument and I’m fully entitled to say so.

Ffs - you can report if you don’t like it ab And yes I do pass judgement - like you dont? Ffs. I actually couldn’t give a flying fig about whether some ( not all ) posters think I’m right or wrong - why should I?

Well it’s all over. More babies will die.

Pot and Kettle Anniebach ?

I can understand both side of the argument. However, I was glad for the women of Ireland that they got the result that so many of them craved for. I do believe many women there have suffered for years from not being able to get an abortion ,catholic church has had an iron grip on that country and has held them back in many ways. Certainly the young Indian dentist who lost her life because she couldn't have one,which sadly proved to be fatal for her, was probably the best example of why it will be a good thing when this new law is implemented. That together with the fact that so many Irish women, for many years have had to travel overseas to get a termination. One can never judge why a woman opts for an abortion there will always be a multitude of reasons. I contemplated one myself in my early 20s, when my contraception failed me and I became pregnant, as it happened I never had to face that decision as I had an early miscarriage. I imagine, being brought up a catholic, I would have suffered quite a bit of guilt if I had had gone through with a termination so it was a great relief to me at that time that I never had to make such a difficult choice. I won't say I grieved for the potential child but I do sometimes ponder on the person it might have become. It's not an easy decision, some women fall pregnant very easily in spite of taking precautions and some are impregnated without consent. As an individual I feel I can't judge other women on what they may consider a necessary choice, whatever their reasons,having once contemplated such a decision myself. Neither would I want to go head to head with a pro lifer, it is after all a very emotive subject and I can sometimes understand their stance, even if I don't support it.

As its obviously impossible for some to discuss this serious and emotive subject reasonably and rationally, I for one am not prepared to be shouted down, sworn at or generally 'put down' at putting forward any differing point of view merely for discussion, so, having made my position clear, I'm out of here!

So for all those who oppose abortion and believe the baby has rights and is a sentient being. How do you think being nurtured in the body of a woman, who doesn't want a child, who has tried to procure an abortion, who has harmed herself and who is in a deep state of emotional distress, will affect that child? And when a baby is born to a mother who can't for any reason care for the child properly how do you think that child will prosper?
The ultimate aim of all birth control and of abortion is Every child a wanted child. And it seems far kinder to me to terminate a pregnancy than to subject a woman and a child to years of misery simply because you have some religious belief about the beginning of life.

Pointless isn’t it niggly, if one says they dislike foul language the reply ‘report me’. I suppose It must be every day use for some so using it in company comes naturally .

Exactly annie, pointless indeed!! I totally take your point trisher, that is why I agree, rather reluctantly to be absolutely honest, to support abortion up to 12 weeks for a healthy baby/mother, with caveats for the unforeseen. For me, nothing to do with religion as I'm constantly on the fence with God!!

Ooohhhhh ab and nn here’s the smelling salts

(shrug!)

I don't think anyone had addressed my earlier point about women who do things that jeopardise their pregnancy and baby, such as smoking, drinking, eating undesirable foods, taking drugs or taking part in hazardous activities. What do pro-lifers think of those women?

I really don't understand why anyone wants to make decisions on anyone else's behalf. It's no one else's body, no one else's baby. And let's face it, abortion has always been with us, since time immemorial. In Ireland the situation was that women with money could access abortion, women without could not.