Grenfell Tower enquiry

We cannot imagine what those firemen who attended the call out saw and heard

Thank you Maw and Mostly for your positive posts regarding the work of the men and women on the ground in the Fire Service.

maryeliza54, apologies, I did not realize that you were referring to bodies outside the inquiry.

I would imagine that the Daily Mail and suchlike have had all the answers for months. So, no need for an inquiry, only have to look at what Paul Dacre has concluded

After all the evidence has been given, the Judge reports his findings to the Government - I wonder how this will be presented ie what happened followed by what should have been done differently

There's bound to be 'lessons will be learned' in the report somewhere

Oh Grandad the media is full of it - all the journalists, keyboard warriors etc who all know exactly what the fire service should have done

I do not believe that anyone is guilty of "sanctimonious hindsight" at this point in time. It was surprising that the police made their statement in regards to possible prosecutions or not under the Health and Safety at Work Act today outside of the enquiry.

It may well be that they are wishing to have the Health and Safety Executive involved at this stage, being that no prosecutions could take place until after the inquiry is finished.

However, there are many scenarios that may well have led to the police making the statement they have.

In that, for those in the fire service and all those that have been caught up in this tragedy, the statement can only be beneficial I feel

Wondered.
The old cliché about 20/20 hindsight is so often bandied about. If only the proverbial lessons were learned and acted on.

Well from reading a wide range of all types of media,I’m seeing a lot of it around - I wasn’t referring to any comments on GN - did you think I was?

Not sure who is guilty of sanctimonious hindsight though.

Out =put

I do think that the Met have been out in a position where they have to investigate otherwise there would be screams of ‘coverup’. In fact an investigation and hopefully a ‘no case to answer’ result would be better than no investigation really but I agree with your overall point and how perfect is sanctimonious hindsight

Not necessary, simply clarifying Anniebach’s perfectly reasonable observation.
I have very mixed feeling in this sort of enquiry into the emergency services. (Thinking of last year’s Manchester arena, for instance. )
Yes grave mistakes were made, usually at the top.
But at the level of the man/woman on the ground we have become aware of individual acts of true heroism .
How dispiriting for the individual firefighters or paramedics or police officers to have their efforts besmirched.

?

Anniebach didn't say that.

I don’t think there are any issues re the ambulance service response are there here?

Police and fire brigade, brings back memories of police and ambulance staff at Hillsborough

maryeliza54, yes the police are at this point carrying out the investigation in regard to the fire service. However, in the Staffordshire roller coaster zinvestigation the H&SE took over the investigation after the police stated they felt that liability for that accident lay under the Health & Safety at Work Act.

I believe that many feel the same will come about with this investigation. I would certainly hope that is the case?

People might find this helpful

The Inquiry’s Terms of Reference are:

1. To examine the circumstances surrounding the fire at Grenfell Tower on 14 June 2017, including:

(a) the immediate cause or causes of the fire and the means by which it spread to the whole of the building;

(b) the design and construction of the building and the decisions relating to its modification, refurbishment and management;

(c) the scope and adequacy of building regulations, fire regulations and other legislation, guidance and industry practice relating to the design, construction, equipping and management of high-rise residential buildings;

(d) whether such regulations, legislation, guidance and industry practice were complied with in the case of Grenfell Tower and the fire safety measures adopted in relation to it;

(e) the arrangements made by the local authority or other responsible bodies for receiving and acting upon information either obtained from local residents or available from other sources (including information derived from fires in other buildings) relating to the risk of fire at Grenfell Tower, and the action taken in response to such information;

(f) the fire prevention and fire safety measures in place at Grenfell Tower on 14 June 2017;

(g) the response of the London Fire Brigade to the fire; and

(h) the response of central and local government in the days immediately following the fire;

and

2. To report its findings to the Prime Minister as soon as possible and to make recommendations.

Also OM there are police investigations going on and some issues will be theirs to investigate not the enquiry’s as the enquiry cannot prosecute anyone.

Something tells me we are not going to be told!!!

The Fire Services did a heroic job at Grenfell Tower. The “stay put” policy was obviously wrong in hindsight but then hindsight is a wonderful thing.
There is no official evacuation procedure for a building like Grenfell Tower as I understand it. The staircase wasn’t designed for evacuation and the flats were considered to be fire resistant. The Fire Brigade couldn’t know how flammable the cladding and windows were.
They were working in horrendous conditions and their breathing apparatus was only adequate to enable the firemen to reach about the eighteenth or twentieth floor.
The “stay put” policy was changed after two hours, but by then it was too late to evacuate all residents from the upper floors into the smoke filled corridors and staircases.

OldMeg I’ve posted the timetable for the rest of the enquiry - there will be much evidence given. It is all going to take rather a long time as it is complex and detailed and this week has only been the opening statements, There is much to come.

I don't know either niggly, we are obviously not so well informed <- relating specifically to niggly, not the topic.

I've googled LBW, but it only gives leg before wicket! Almost certainly in the context of this thread it can't mean that, so somebody, what does it mean?!