England, no way sorry

Our local river, the Mersey, is certainly lot cleaner than it used to be. When I was a child, there was brown foam on the surface, from industrial pollution.

Now the water is clear. Just a few years ago, an octopus was found swimming in it. ( a very small octopus)

.......and the cows up stream Nfk

Always keep your mouth closed and above water when swimming in rivers or lakes. Never mind the rats what about all that duck and fish poo.

Rats are not the same as 'water rats' ie water voles which are endangered.

Rats carry Weil's disease - I know someone who died of it sadly (from canal water). I'm not sure if water voles carry it too, I can't check at the moment as the pc is playing up.

I did think that our waterways, including the Thames, were much cleaner than they used to be so it's alarming to hear that TerriBull.

Yes lemon, maybe he had a touch of Weils disease plenty of rats in the river. Having said that we have some nice, but mad neighbours who have been known to swim across on very hot summer days to the lively"The Boaters" directly opposite. Personally, I wouldn't dip a toe in it, up river less than half a mile away where we have loads of cafe life fronting the river, one is aware at certain times of the day a sewage like odour becomes very apparent I'm surprised any life can survive in our waters.

Yes Terri too many water rats in the Thames, and Walliams swallowed some water, yuk.
That said, the Thames is actually much cleaner now than it used to be.

I don't blame you Annie, it will have lost it's Welsh purity diluted by all manner of pollutants

Terri, thank you but no thank you ?, one thing we are not short of is water. Driving south from this town 18 miles to the next town there are three reservoirs, and driving to the north of the county from here several dozen, in our small town we have three rivers and a canal , add the lakes , rather a lot of water, I have swum in the rivers but not the canal ?

This was raised yesterday granny23 and having read the account in a Scottish newspaper I think it has been blown out of proportion and has been dealt with by the speaker. Also the word "commit" was not said (see below) so a huge difference.

SNP justice spokeswoman Joanna Cherry later raised the issue with John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons. “When [Mr Blackford] was asking you what options were open to Scottish parliamentarians to raise their concern about what has just occurred, [Mr Liddell-Grainger] shouted ‘suicide’. Is that in order?” she asked. Mr Bercow said he had not heard the remark but did not dispute that it had been made. He added: “I would judge that, frankly, to be distasteful. Is it disorderly? I think it’s almost certainly not disorderly.” Scottish Secretary David Mundell was asked about the incident on Wednesday and said it was right that Mr Liddell-Grainger had been “slapped down”. “I didn’t hear those remarks, but of course it’s not appropriate,” he told the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland programme.

Annie as a gesture of goodwill and having the Thames at the bottom of the gardens where I live, I only wish I could send some of your water back to where it belongs via you although you probably wouldn't want it. When David Walliams did one of his sponsored swims and swam past our bit of river, we all went to cheer him on. Next day he got really sick bet that wouldn't have happened if he'd been swimming in Wales!

I don't suppose that many of you will be aware of what happened in the HoC yesterday as having searched the BBC News sight I can find no mention of it. I did find this: stv.tv/news/politics/1418551-brexit-bill-clause-passed-without-holyrood-s-consent/

Basically the Scottish Parliament refused to endorse the section of the Brexit Bill which relates to Devolution. There was cross party support in the SP from all bar the Tories. When all of the Lord's amendments had been voted on with the MPs marching up to the Lobbies and down again umpteen times there was little time left to debate this clause, and the Minister filibustered such that no Scottish MPs were able to speak. When the vote was taken the bill was passed, thus ignoring the lack of consent from the SP - with Labour abstaining although they had supported the issue in the Scottish Parliament.

Then Ian Blackford (SNP Leader at Westminster) rose on a point of order, to ask the speaker what course of action was open to them now that the rules of the Devolution Settlement had been broken. He could hardly be heard above the rabble from Tory MPs (including those who sit for Scottish seats) but when he asked the speaker what could he do now? A Tory MP could be heard shouting 'Commit Suicide'

So much for a Union of Equals. It is a very complex issue which is difficult to understand but basically the Westminster Government has just ridden roughshod over the Devolution settlement and is now free to take control of formerly devolved powers. My facebook feeds of a Nationalist bias are calling for a walk out from Westminster and a dissolution of the Union.

Wish that idiot union chap hadn’t spoken of taking water from Mid Wales to the Thames , I wouldn’t have started this thread.

My paternal G.grandmother was Irish, overthehill, County Cork to be precise. She came to England for whatever reason in the 1870's, married etc, so I have got some Celtic blood!! I appreciate that Scotland (and Wales) have grievances; the past, no matter however much we regret it, we can do nothing about! The present? Well Scotland, you had your referendum and decided to stay! No doubt you'll get another (once in a life time) one! If you decide to go, then so be it, we won't stop you or deliberately make it difficult. But to keep on and on about how horrible we are and how hard done by you all are is frankly nasty. I don't think anybody on here has bad mouthed the present Scottish Government, and yet all we hear is that Wesminster is 'evil' on a par with Nazi Germany, grinding the Scots into the ground, hating the RF and so it goes on. Life isn't that brilliant for lots of us and Tbh this constant self pity trip is flipping tedious! I haven't given enough up on you overthehill, just a bit exasperated! ??

I'm English because I was born and brought up in England. I have a Scottish neice and nephew, Scottish because they were born and brought up in Scotland by 'English' parents. I don't really share the tribal loyalties which so many of you display. I think the Scots have a good case for wanting independence especially since the English & Welsh voted for Brexit. A key factor influencing the No vote in the indie ref was membership of the EU, as I recall. I'd be pretty annoyed if I were Scottish.

The Scots have a lot of history of not supporting England sports teams.

I like paddyann. If accident of birth had placed me in Scotland I think I might be a bit feisty about England too.

Just a few thoughts

Yes overthehills thank goodness the majority saw sense and voted no, but they still have to convince the minority who can’t seem to accept the result.

Niggly - I am Irish and have lived in Scotland for exactly half of my life. I don’t blame you for wanting to wash your hands of Scotland but the majority voted “No” so please don’t give up on us!

This from Wiki:
The Parliament of England was the legislature of the Kingdom of England, existing from the early 13th century until 1707, when it became the Parliament of Great Britain.

Why cant people undersand that very simple FACT
Because it is in fact not a fact - sorry - FACT

I believe the rivalry between Celtic and Rangers goes far deeper than the rivalry we see between our local teams like Sunderland and Newcastle . There is a rather nasty religious element attached which is just so wrong in sport .

It has been said that when Parliament meets to discuss England only legislation, following EVEL rules, it is, in effect The Parliament of England. I do not think that EVEL is the best solution by a long chalk. It is, rather, a cobbled together, cut price, make do and mend solution, triggered by panic when so many Scots supported Independence and sent 56 SNP MPs to Westminster with only 1 seat each for Lib, Lab, and Con. The proper solution, of course, would be to have a devolved parliament for England BUT that would require elections, a chamber + committee rooms, offices, etc. and expenses/salaries for over 500 elected members. Remembering the furore around the cost of setting up the Scottish Parliament, I can't see much public support for this scenario, much simpler to use existing buildings and MPs

It has been amusing to see my own, new, constituency Conservative MP (English born, bred and resident) ejected from the chamber because he was a Scottish MP and bleating that he thought the EVEL rules only applied to SNP MPs.

Here is further information on EVEL: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33370064

Honestly Paddyann, without wishing to be offensive, I haven't a clue what you're talking about!! As far as I'm aware, Scotland, Wales and NI have their own parliament, Assembly/s (hopefully NI will at some stage sort out their differences!) without a single English MP to be seen. We however do not have our own parliament that contains only English MPs. We've had Scottish Prime Ministers, and cabinet ministers, and while we don't complain, there are times that we could perhaps be forgiven for wishing the Scottish MPs could go North and stay there!! Talking to my Scottish SIL I am somewhat reassured that not all Scots feel the way you do and actually feel embarrassed and ashamed at the venom that gets thrown at us as a nation, particularly this rubbish about football team support from your dear leader!

Sue and thats part of the problem ,you say you dont do religion or football .The fact is that there should be no religion AT football .The offensive behaviour at football act was voted out of existence by Labour and Tory MSP's simply as a two fingers up to the SNP who brought it in.
While it was around it didn't stop ALL the sectarian songs etc but it was a start .Now we have Rangers/unionists in black masks giving Nazi salutes and singing F the pope on weekends outside football grounds.So well done Mr Kelly for keeping Labour supporters happy and ryally peeing off the rest of the community !

Im afraid (despite the fact “that it has been explained to me” ) I don’t agree with you paddyann there is no English parliament.

And why the shouty capitals ?

Sue

I can say without fear of contradiction that there is no way whatsoever that the fans of either half of the Old Firm would support the other half in the European Cup Final.

But that’s a sad discussion for another thread

I’ve always had to clear customs at the first EU border encountered when coming from outside the EU, but after that have been able to use the blue channel for the rest of the journey.

Gillybob it has been explained to you that England has its own parliament...WESTMINTER IS an english parliament.The English Mp's far outnumber everyone else so what THEY vote for ALWAYS wins.Why cant people undersand that very simple FACT .Add EVEL to the mix and the other Nations cant vote on any English matters EVEN when there are knock on effects for the rest of us .
That is NOT a UNION .Its a very scewed democracy where one party/country always has the upper hand .