If there was another EU referendum...

Varian, Grandad and Maizie - do let them be for a bit. Poor things are really rattled by recent event - they can see it all go to pot, and they have difficulty coming to terms with it and realising they have not won, as such. Have a heart ...
snow flakes in that heat, does not bear thinkng about, and with such queues at A&E and no beds ... well...

Allygran, this is a thread about a second Brexit referendum not the NH. Therefore allygran, that makes your post about in regard to the NHS in this thread, "diatribe"

Grandad would it not be better rather than moaning and being rude, that you could engage on the topic. Wouldn't that be something.

But since you are so anxious that the thread remain on the topic of voting leave. All I can say is read Brexit, Brexit2, Consequences of Brexit all have very full debate, information. You will find the answer to your question there.

Allygran1, I have not asked any questions of you on Brexit. I have asked hardline Brexitiers to justify to all those desperately worried about their jobs in Aerospace, car production, heavy engineering and other such industries to explain to them how a hard Brexit and the loss of frictionless border trade would benefit those employed in such industries. No one commented on that request.

I think that states it all in regard to Brexit enthusiasts.

Ally take no notice, carry on posting as much info as you like ( they have no idea how many posters read it) more than they would like I suspect!

Some posters simply dislike the content of Ally’s posts so they don’t want anyone to read it, so decry it as ‘too long’
As if that had ever mattered to them, if they happen to agree with the content.

There are no hard line Brexiters on this thread, which explains it Grandad so who are you talking to?

lemongrove, of course, there are, just look back at some of the past posts you will soon see who they are.

They are hiding in the closet now of course when asked to explain how a hard brexit would benefit the employees in industries that would be devastated by the loss of frictionless border trade.

Grandad same old diatribe, protecting jobs. You have been wound in.
This is all about profit.
The majority of our industry was outsourced to Eastern Europe companies using EU subsidies to set up there to keep these countries sweet and away from any potential Russian association. Every other waggon on our motorways are full of goods and parts being repatriated to Uk to be sold at a premium using the prestegious 'Made in Britain' stamp. That work was previously done in UK and could be done here and these goods then could genuinely be sold as 'Made in Britain'. Additionally some of the remaining semi and unskilled work is being done by workers from Eastern Europe who have settled here for the better salaries and benefits, so if you think these companys are being benevolent to workers by crying foul to Brexit you are supporting their blatant profiteering.

So,Joelsnan, you think that your above post is a good explanation to the many thousands who work in the car assembly plants or the aerospace industry plants along with many others all of which could be easily moved to Europe on the loss of frictionless border trade.

I think those employees would say that you are stating utter diatribe and treating them as idiots, which indeed is the case

joelsnan
How true. I was living in Bulgaria when they joined the eu.
One of our English neighbours had a clothing company in Egypt. He heard about this eu subsidies, 'sold' the company to a Bulgarian, got a very substantial sum of money, moved the company to BG then 'bought' the company back. Jobs a good'n as he would say.
That money that he was given was yours, mine, and every taxpayer in the eu.

Evidence, Joel'snan?

From what I see in the shops I think that every other wagon on our motorways is filled with goods carrying the 'Made in China' stamp... Or the marque of goods from EU countries..I'm not altogether sure that 'Made in Britain' stamps are particularly numerous or prestigious these days.

Your dismissal of our own businesses is really very sad; we have thousands of Small and Medium size Enterprises (SMEs) which depend directly or indirectly on trade with the EU. They are either suppliers of goods, parts and services to our EU partners or they offer services and goods for consumers whose wages come from businesses engaged with the EU.

for example:

Nissan employs more than 7,000 people at its Sunderland plant - though it announced in April it was cutting an undisclosed number of permanent salaried positions, blaming a decline in the sale of new diesel cars.

The plant also supports almost 30,000 more posts in its supply chain, the vast majority of which is based in the North East.

And, of course, there are all the food shops, clothes shops, furniture shops, hairdressers etc. etc. which cater for these workers.

I find this hard to reconcile with your sweeping statements about goods being made cheaply in the EU and repatriated.

Perhaps it's Leavers who have been wound in...

www.sunderlandecho.com/news/warning-over-impact-of-brexit-on-nissan-and-wider-uk-car-industry-1-9222242

Grandad1943
These jobs could go to the EU even if we remain in the EU in fact there is a greater likelihood of this happening if we remain.
We have lost thousands of jobs to the EU through the outsourcing of industry to Eastern Europe.

I do find some of your reposts quite unnecessary, you do yourself a disservice with your personal jibes.

Joelsnan what a clear explanation of just how the EU manipulate companies, and in doing that impose the "Country of Origin" regulations.

Well said Joelsnan

Good heavens, ally. you think that's a 'clear explanation'?

************************************************************

We have lost thousands of jobs to the EU through the outsourcing of industry to Eastern Europe.

Once again an assertion without any evidence for it

But so rich when you consider that a leading industrialist Leaver outsources his production to Asia. That's fine though, I suppose...

None of it is fine, and we have been outsourcing too much for too long.

MaizieD
Maybe you don’t travel on the motorways and roads I do. the M62 is almost nose to tail with wagons from Poland, Romania etc. Maybe you should take a ride the evidence is there.
Please advise where I have dismissed our own businesses.

Your statement re Nissan states the decline in sales is due to a fall in Diesel car sales, how can that be attributed to Brexit?

If you do a little research, the evidence is there with regard to the ‘Made in Britain’ sham.

MazieD
My comments are fact not assertion, if you chose to do a little research for yourself you will find this is true.
Any evidence presented here by anyone who does not agree with the Cabals ideology is dismissed, so better that you research it yourself.

Those jobs in Nissan and all the other vehicle assembly plants are reliant on frictionless border trade. Without that the production would quickly and undoubtedly be moved to the continent as just in time delivery schedules that those plants so much rely on would be impossible.

All future planned development would be based on Europe for production.

Time for some to wake up to what modern distribution involves.

The clip about Nissan was to illustrate the number of jobs which one industry alone provides directly in one small area of the UK. 37,000 jobs plus those in businesses which cater for those worker's needs; jobs which are not outsourced to Eastern Europe.

Foreign lorries on our motorways? OMG . It's called 'trade', Joelsnan. I wonder how many British lorries can be seen on Europe's motorways every day? Only you won't see them because you're too busy clocking Eastern European lorries in the UK..

MaizieD, your post say's "Nissan employs more than 7,000 people at its Sunderland plant - though it announced in April it was cutting an undisclosed number of permanent salaried positions, blaming a decline in the sale of new diesel cars".

Are you claiming that Nissan are lying about the decline in Diesel vehicle sales? It's not clear to me what your point is.

Nissan issued this:
PARIS (Reuters) - Japanese carmaker Nissan will gradually stop selling diesel cars in Europe, in a further sign of weakening demand for those cars as customers worry about tax rises and looming bans and restrictions related to diesel in many countries.
A Nissan spokeswoman said there would be a gradual withdrawal of diesel cars in Europe. A source had earlier told Reuters last month that Nissan would cut hundreds of jobs at its Sunderland plant, Britain’s biggest automotive factory, due to falling demand for diesel models in Europe.
The auto industry and its suppliers are facing a global regulatory crackdown on diesel emissions and are adjusting their businesses, including investing heavily in electric vehicles.
German carmaker Volkswagen is also still in the process of emerging from a 2015 emissions cheating scandal that resulted in about $30 billion in fines and other costs.
“Along with other manufacturers and industry bodies we can see the progressive decline of diesel but we do not anticipate its sudden end in the short-term. At this point in time and for many customers, modern diesel engines will remain in demand and continue to be available within Nissan’s powertrain offering,” said the Nissan spokeswoman.
“In Europe, where our diesel sales are concentrated, our electrification push will allow us to discontinue diesel gradually from passenger cars at the time of each vehicle renewal,” she added.
Data earlier this month showed a sharp drop in demand for diesel cars in Britain, which is Europe’s second-largest autos market.

www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-politics-factbox/factbox-turkeys-new-cabinet-under-powerful-executive-presidency-idUSKBN1JZ2

if you chose to do a little research for yourself you will find this is true.

It would be so much more valuable to everyone if people who have found things out shared the origins of their findings rather than just direct people to the search engines.

Are you claiming that Nissan are lying about the decline in Diesel vehicle sales? It's not clear to me what your point is.

I'm afraid that if you can't work it out from the exchange I've just had with Joelsnan you will have to remain in a fog. I explained my use of that clip in the post immediately above yours.

Grandad1943
Thank you, I am quite au fait with modern production, logistics and just in time parts provision and assert that the only reason many parts or assembly is done in Eastern Europe has little to do with ‘on time’ provision (which would probably be better served closer to source) and more to do with workforce exploitation in these countries and profit.

MaizieD
It would be so much more valuable to everyone if people who have found things out shared the origins of their findings rather than just direct people to the search engines.
Goodness, no, one only receives abuse if one either cuts and pastes or presents links...far better you seek the truth then it cannot be dismissed as diatribe or similar.