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Liar, liar, pants on fire!

(107 Posts)
GillT57 Wed 04-Jul-18 16:28:39

So, Esther McVey has been forced to apologise to the HoC this afternoon. In the House, they are not permitted to call another member a liar, but that is what she is and she has been found out and exposed as such by the National Audit Office (NAO). This was no misunderstanding, it was deliberate. Lots of reports, choose your source.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/esther-mcvey-apology-misleading-parliament-universal-credit-welfare-programme-secretary-a8430796.htm

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/04/esther-mcvey-welfare-secretary-misled-parliament-over-reforms-auditors-say

knickas63 Mon 30-Jul-18 15:36:29

She won't be sacked thought will she? They just keep getting away with it and people just keep voting for them. I despair!

Allygran1 Mon 30-Jul-18 13:28:50

Hannah Arendt also said:

Only the mob and the elite can be attracted by the momentum of totalitarianism itself. The masses have to be won by propaganda
.
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution

This is the precept by which I have lived: Prepare for the worst; expect the best; and take what comes.

varian Mon 30-Jul-18 11:03:22

It should be essential to teach everyone- not just children, to question the "news" they hear, whether in the MSM, online or by word of mouth.

This is now far more difficult than it has ever been, and far more important. Just remember that there are people in North Korea who genuinely believe that they are living in the most wonderful country in the world.

MaizieD Sun 29-Jul-18 13:41:10

I think this quote might be relevant to your comment, minesaprosecco

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists. - Hannah Arendt

MaizieD Sun 29-Jul-18 13:37:58

Is it possible to read this article without being stopped by the paywall, hilda?

(Actually, you can very often get round it by googling the article's title, so what is its title?)

minesaprosecco Sun 29-Jul-18 12:51:09

Agree, hilda, very well written article highlighting the danger of the acceptance of the untruthful world we live in.

suzied Sun 29-Jul-18 12:50:12

Defending the present bunch of numpties that calls itself a government by saying Labour are worse is not really addressing the point, many people are coming to the conclusion that the bar is set so low by T May and co it would be hard to be worse.

minesaprosecco Sun 29-Jul-18 12:26:27

Posted too soon! I meant to add 'under a labour government than under the present shower of incompetent fools.'

minesaprosecco Sun 29-Jul-18 12:25:09

yggdrasil, my parents thought exactly the same about Harold Wilson. Whatever the shortcomings of the present Labour party may be, Labour has consistently managed the economy better when in power than the Tories have. I for one believe that vulnerable people, including those who are disabled, in low paid jobs or even the just about managing ones would be better off and treated with more dignity than they are at present.

HildaW Sun 29-Jul-18 12:17:05

Caitlin Moran wrote a nicely argued article about this subject in yesterday's times magazine. Pretty much sums up my views. [email protected]

varian Sun 29-Jul-18 12:10:41

Sarah Wollaston , who originally supported the leave campaign, changed her mind on the EU because – unlike Britain in this debate – she cares about truth

www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/06/sarah-wollaston-changed-her-mind-eu-because-unlike-britain-debate-she

grannyactivist Sat 28-Jul-18 23:03:02

Anna Soubry was meeting with Esther McVey this week to discuss the shortcomings of UC. She says it's what the majority of complaints in her postbag are about and is very angry that UC is just rolling out when it is patently not fit for purpose. I am slightly hopeful that being challenged by someone from her own party will cause EMcV to rethink.

grannypauline Sat 28-Jul-18 22:33:19

I'm waiting for Esther Mcvey to state EITHER that the UC rollout has been halted OR that she has met with the NAO to discuss this matter and that differences over timing and implementation have been resolved.

I'm not holding my breath!

varian Sun 15-Jul-18 20:08:30

The relationship between the Trump campaign and Brexit still has not penetrated public consciousness in the UK, but Carroll believes they are converging, circling the same ground.

“We now have investigations in the US, Canada and the UK that are actively coordinating and we are getting closer to this knowledge of how this transnational collaboration [allegedly] worked and how they [ allegedly] used jurisdictional arbitrage to get around laws. Denham has had the time and resources and what’s clear from the interim report is that she’s finding stuff. There are hints of explosive revelations to come. There are findings here that finally smash the narrative that the Facebook data was not used for Trump,” he says. And it’s not finished yet. We know there’s more to come.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/15/elizabeth-denham-data-protection-information-commissioner-facebook-cambridge-analytica?CMP=share_btn_tw

varian Fri 13-Jul-18 13:07:42

The BBC’s reporting of the scandals around the Brexit referendum is not biased or unbalanced: it barely exists. It is as though the US networks had decided the Mueller investigation was no concern of theirs. There have been three huge stories the BBC has covered with only the most perfunctory reports: the Facebook/Cambridge Analytica data leak, the Brexit campaign funding scandal, and the exposure of Russian interference in British politics.

www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/07/12/how-the-bbc-lost-the-plot-on-brexit/

This commentary on the abject failure of the BBC to report Brexit scandals draws parallels to an Orwellian word which we are now so close to.

yggdrasil Fri 13-Jul-18 08:31:16

lemongrove: If anyone thinks this present government is bad, wait until Jezza becomes PM, then you will know the meaning of incompetence ( and he will bankrupt us into the bargain.)

When I was fourteen or so, Harold Wilson was elected. My mother scared me by saying it was the end of the world as we knew it, and also what you said above.
Three years or so later, when I had a bit more political knowledge, I saw that things were actually going quite well. I was entitled to a grant for University education, houses had been built to replace those destroyed in the war, the NHS was going from strength to strength.
And the present government is far more incompetent then the old traditional Tories of the fifties. They have already "bankrupted" the country in general, apart from their own nesteggs in the Bahamas.
We need a complete change. And of course, Labour party policy is made by the members, not the leader.

Eloethan Thu 12-Jul-18 01:57:13

lemongrove What "all" does it say?

varian Wed 11-Jul-18 21:04:42

Vote Leave said during the referendum that:

1) promising to use the Article 50 process would be stupid and the UK should maintain the possibility of making real preparations to leave while NOT triggering Article 50
2) triggering Article 50 quickly without discussions with our EU friends and without a plan ‘would be like putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger’. Following this advice would have maintained the number of positive branching histories of the future, including a friendly departure under Article 50.

lemongrove Wed 11-Jul-18 20:42:17

If anyone thinks this present government is bad, wait until
Jezza becomes PM, then you will know the meaning of incompetence ( and he will bankrupt us into the bargain.)

lemongrove Wed 11-Jul-18 20:40:08

Ah, but you’re a Corbyn fan Eloethan ( which says it all)
wink

varian Wed 11-Jul-18 19:46:37

I agree Eloethan the inherant dishonesty of our present government is utterly appalling.

Eloethan Thu 05-Jul-18 23:35:26

lemongrove You say "For those who dislike this particular government, I can see this would be a disappointment, no hanging today!"

I could equally say "Those who like this particular government continue to brazen it out"

As for those who say it is not for Gransnetters (or, indeed, people on any forum) to form an opinion on such matters, I believe for those who routinely support this government there has been no such reluctance to judge the honesty and competence of MPs who do not belong to the Conservative Party.

mostlyharmless Thu 05-Jul-18 13:48:38

Esther McVey defending the Universal Credit system

Esther McVey received less of a grilling for misleading parliament than most vulnerable people do trying to claim universal credit

www.independent.co.uk/voices/esther-mcvey-dwp-universal-credit-parliament-poll-tax-a8431036.html

endre123 Thu 05-Jul-18 13:19:59

In Cameron premiership McVey (amongst others) used the chamber to impress a personal hateful aspect of the people needing help with benefits. It led to hate crime on our streets and a lot of needless suffering. Things are supposed to have changed, the HoC is not supposed to be used as a platform for hatred. What McVey did was actually completely misquote the department to say they were accelerating universal benefits when they said they needed to slow down to sort out the glitches. They way it was said was hideous. It was the old hateful rhetoric which used to get her congratulations from the back benches. It's now called hate crime.

Her apology was equally hideous. A no apology, the "sound of it" made it clear she couldn't care less. She should be sacked from the party to prevent her finding another constituency to try and get back to the chamber.

MawBroon Thu 05-Jul-18 12:06:36

I think that is what I and others have been saying too.