Given up on Brexit

I am a remainer. We have had peace for 70 years amongst EU members; we have had legislation that has helped the environment, the rights of workers etc and we participated in making those laws; we have moved freely around the EU. I know there are problems with the EU as there are in any large organisation but the good outweighs the bad, I believe.

One of the (many) things I didn't like about the referendum vote ( and btw do you think Farage, Johnson etc would have accepted such a narrow defeat if the result had been reversed without calling for a second referendum?) was that we "oldies" were accused by the young of letting them down. As very few of the people of my age that I know voted to leave and, on the march the other week calling for a referendum on the terms, there were many older people supporting the EU, I naively thought that perhaps it was a myth that a majority of older people had voted to leave. But reading this post today I feel in despair, particularly about those people who claim to have voted remain but have changed their mind because of EU intransigence. What do you expect? They don't want us to go; they can't make it easy for us.

Surely the hard Brexiteers in the government have shown that there is no easy way out which is not going to damage our society terribly? They have not been able to come up with a plan which protects the accord in Ireland or anything else. I did and do respect lots of the Leave arguments but the whole package is a bit of a fantasy.

Round here it was all about immigration and a chance to vote on it nobody had a clue what else the EU really did. The local newsagent and one of his customers discussed the possibility of getting their relatives into the country more easily if the EU citizens weren't allowed to come and intended to vote purely on that. It was all very basic stuff with no understanding of anything else. The trade side of things never seemed to come into anybody's conversation.

Well I don't feel finished or on my knees.
Gone through a few ups and downs with various governments but am still here and getting out of it what I put in.

I live in Europe and it was therefore my choice to vote Remain .....given there was NO explanation and NO plan for an eventual Leave victory , the only 'explanation' was on the side of a bus!!!!! For heaven's sake ...who decided their future and the future of generations to come from a few falsehoods painted on a BUS ...I despair of the UK and its weak and ineffectual government. Mostly I blame Cameron for his egotistical belief that no one would call his bluff. He is ok ...multi millionaire with wife the same, who has now walked off into the sunset with lucrative speaking engagements ...why would the mess his 'leadership' left the UK in be of any bother to him ! Maybot is about as hapless as a fish out of water ...no ability to lead, no plans, just repetition of the same mantra ....at least Donald summed it up ! All we hear is about the future of EU citizens living/working in the UK ...we hear nothing about the future of UK Citizens living and working in the EU ......not only on 'the Costa retirement' but cities and towns right across the EU who have children that have so far been educated in Spanish, Frenchm Italian, German, etc etc .......where are the jobs going to be if they are all forced to return ...and for the OAPs the further burden on the NHS, housing care costs ....none of this was thought out. How can a government expect to decide the future of generations here and those to come based on lies, squabbling and be the laughing stock of the world !!!!! If you gotta go, GO NOW TM

Just listened to Emily Thornbury on QT - she is brilliant.

I'm slightly bewildered by why a privileged member of the labour party is capable of caring for the poorer members of society while a privileged member of Tory party isn't.

Well, listen to her:

www.facebook.com/Channel4NewsDemocracy/videos/vb.986903328054277/1729801773764425/?type=2&theater&comment_id=1729836423760960¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic¬if_id=1531321719939875

Emily Thornberry is probably the most patronising woman in politics.

Raging mad at this. By 'decent people' I assume mean nice, middle class white people who live in a nostalgic past. Yes the country is on its knees and it's Teresa May and her ilk that have put it there. Self serving millionaires with no care for ordinary people.
Frankly you're talking out of your backside.

‘Swivel-eyed leavers’, whatever the argument or discussion, however ignorant or not, resorting to this kind of language merely demeans the writer, in my opinion.

In fact the OP is so pathetic it has to be a wind up!

kitty, Leadsome and Patel beat her hands down on the patronising ...
but without the common sense, knowledge, insight, humanity or wicked sense of humour

Crystaltipps: The idea of Corbyn being an enemy of this country is totally wrong. He cares about people and is not in bed with corporations. When TM is asked a question she laughs with the Con mp's braying behind her at the misfortune of the letter writer Corbyn has chosen to bring to their attention. This situation was avoidable on so many levels but Cameron called the referendum in order to get his own way and it back fired. He then slunk off like the coward he is. The sooner TM resigns and a decent honest person like Corbyn takes over the better. Please stop reading the main stream press which is mostly owned by tax avoiding non doms in this country and do some research.

Sorry my post should have said Luckylegs and not Crystaltipps, my mistake.

Legs55 said: I don't want to be a part of a "Federal Europe" run by France & Germany.

Would you be ok being part of a "Federal Europe" run by the UK, along with France & Germany?

I visited Brussels in 1988 on a College trip (Mature HND Business Studies student), we had a "talk" in the EU building, delivered by a Danish man, it was "France contributes this, Germany contributes that, Italy, Spain Portugal etc contribute whatever" , no mention of UK contribution at all,
Probably because he thought you, as Business Studies students, would already know what the UK contributed

I think people see what they want to see. The thought of an arrogant Thornberry being part of a possible future government with the equally patronising Corbyn etc is terrifying.

oh kitty and the thought of BoJo, Rees Mogg and Gove is not? Yes, eyes of the beholder for sure.

Anyhow, do watch Emily on QT this afternoon, she was brilliant and Ledington had no answer for her

I have a Garfield cartoon about the state of the world stuck to my fridge. The punchline is ( as the cat lies down for a snooze) " Just so long as it's not happening here...!"
That's how I get through the politics that go on- I am not uncaring, and in the past have bared my teeth many times at Tony Blair, sadly not in public, and I dislike Jeremy Corbin from what I have heard of him.I don't doubt whatever crisis we have faced in the world, from being on the brink of world wars to the nuclear threat in the 70's that we go through these times. Everything seems transient to me, so hence the Garfield cartoon..... come on, England might win tonight.....!!

Apologies. Corbyn...my iPad corrected it before I noticed, my excuse anyway....

Kittylester you might find this interesting:

Thornberry has lived in Islington since the early 1990s. In July 1991 she married fellow-barrister Sir Christopher Nugee, of Wilberforce Chambers,[67] in Tower Hamlets, and they have two sons (born December 1991 and July 1999) and a daughter Rose (born November 1993). Sir Christopher later became a Queen's Counsel, then a High Court Judge, when he was knighted, at which point Thornberry became entitled to be styled Lady Nugee, although she does not use the title. Since 1993 they have lived on Richmond Crescent, Barnsbury, where Tony Blair also lived until the 1997 general election, moving in on the same day as the Blairs.[68] Thornberry also part-owns properties in Guildford and South London.[59][69]
In April 2005, it emerged that Thornberry had sent her son to the partially selective Dame Alice Owen's state school 14 miles (23 km) away from her home and outside her constituency. The school was formerly based in Islington and still reserves ten per cent of its places for Islington pupils.[70] The Labour Party opposes selection and Thornberry was widely criticised over the issue as a result.[71] Chris Woodhead, the former chief inspector of schools said: "I celebrate her good sense as a parent and deplore her hypocrisy as a politician. When will those who espouse the virtues of comprehensive education apply the logic of their political message to their children?" Later, Thornberry's daughter also attended the school.[72]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Thornberry

A not so poverty stricken Labour MP, who lives in the multi millionaire's row, alongside Tony Blair. Lady Nugee. aka: Emily Thornberry.

Maddyone, I completely support your comments about posters "resorting to this kind of language merely demeans the writer, in my opinion."

I knew most of that Allygran which is why her patronising tone irritates so much.

jura while we’re cuttin’ ‘n’ pastin’ how about this one from 2014:
Emily Thornberry resigns over white van tweet

I didn't realise it was that recent Jane!

kitty 2014 was 4 years ago!
At an earlier stage of our lives that would have seemed an eternity!