Brexit

petra I agree that if there were better & concerted ' aid' programmes worked out with countries where many migrants travel from, that improved educationn/ employment for local people and enriched the nation then fewer would seek to travel. Countries with colonial histories need to be honest about their impact on current situations.

Joelsgran it is funny you should mention the Eurovision song contest.

Someone we spoke to just after the EU referendum told us that he didn't know anything about the EU but he had always believed he should vote.

He didn't know which way to vote until he watched the Eurovision Song Contest and he said to us "these bloody foreigners didn't vote for us so I think we should get out"

His explanation of how he came to vote leave was one of the most intelligent and well informed that we have heard.

Oh, haha Varian......perhaps you should get out more, you may then hear some sensible views.

I have been out today lemon and met someone whose views on the nonsense of brexit were even stronger than mine.

Remember that at least 48 million people who lived in the UK in 2016 did not vote for brexit. OK, 17 million did, but they included folk who believed lies and folk who had very little understanding of anything about the EU and folk who had a legitimate grievance about the way they had been mistreated by successive UK governments, nothing to do with the EU.

You know that. I know that. Most thinking people know that and we also know that the leave campaign cheated as has been proven be the Electoral Commission. That fraudulent referendum was a piece of nonsense and unless people can vote for the informed choice of accepting an inferior future or staying in, we will have lost our sovereignty and become a poor third class country.

What I know Varian is that you don’t understand numbers when it comes to votes.
Voters who lay in bed and can’t be bothered voting, those who have never had the vote in the first place, those far too young to have a vote, EU citizens who of course were not eligible to vote etc do not count, all that counts is those who could and did vote.
48 million indeed!

There are ‘folk’ as you call them, on the Remain side who also understand little about the EU, and those who believed lies ( emergency budgets, armageddon etc.)

Oh, for heaven's sake. The Eurovision Song contest has nothing to do with the EU.

It's extraordinary how Leavers manage to reduce everything to the level of the playground.

Oh the irony!

About 3.5 million EU citizens who were living and working in the UK in 2016 were disenfranchised. These people, like my friend who had lived in this country for twenty five years, working, paying taxes and contributing to this country in many ways, had no right to vote, and yet they were most affected by the result.

This was a scandalous corruption of democracy which is based on "no taxation without representation".

I very much doubt that many, if not any , of these folk would have voted leave.

Do turkeys vote for Christmas?

Which is why they couldn’t be allowed to vote.

Well, that and the fact that they are not British so not allowed the vote.

Sadly, the people who were most disadvantaged by the actions or inactions of successive British governments, did vote for brexit, as directed by the Express, Daily Mail and The Sun.

These poor turkeys, living in areas which benefited from EU subsidies, did, indeed vote for Xmas. They will sihher more than any of us from brexit, if it happens, and a "no deal" brexit will devastate them and their communities.

They would suffer (not sihher)

But EU citizens resident here can vote in other elections.

Some only.

No taxation without representation.

varian
These poor turkeys, living in areas which benefited from EU subsidies, did, indeed vote for Xmas. They will sihher more than any of us from brexit, if it happens, and a "no deal" brexit will devastate them and their communities

Apart from this being very offensive, it is very wrong.
Those who voted Brexit from deprived areas know exactly what the recent changes to the EU have done to them and their cmmunities. Probably since the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties.
You may sit in your Ivory tower with gold plated pension but these people have seen their communities firstly decimated by the outsourcing of their employment to the cheaper subsidised Eastern European countries. These stable pensionable employments replaced by minimal wage service jobs offered through employment agencies or gig contracts and being taken up by eastern europeans who migrated here bcause the wages and benefits are still better than in their home countries.
You may wish to protect your middle class lifestyle, they were prepared to take a leap of faith to protect the 'just getting by' lifestyles the EU has dealt them and vote Leave. These are not your Turkeys. These are the brave people of Britain.

Will people stop talking about eu subsidies as if the eu were some benevolent relative dishing out money to the poor members of the family.
They have no money, it's ours!!!

Here here joelsnan

Those who voted Brexit from deprived areas know exactly what the recent changes to the EU have done to them and their cmmunities. Probably since the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties.

Perhaps you could give us some examples of companies which have outsourced their jobs to the EU, Joelsnan. It would be good to hear some evidence rather than just assertions.

And perhaps you might consider companies like Nissan who have invested in the UK because it gave them access to the EU Single Market. Brexit will devastate Leave voting areas like Sunderland if Nissan pulls out. Which they are strongly threatening to do if we lose access to it.

GN posters should never make assumptions about which other Getters have a middle class lifestyle and a good plated pension.

varian
GN posters should not call other human beings Turkeys!

Sigh - I thought this thread was doing so well.

MaizieD
I will post a few links, but if you do a search for ‘UK companies outsourcing to the EU’ there are hundreds and many posts from set-up companies enabling this.
BTW, i don’t work on assertions.

www.ft.com/content/5520c060-d6cc-11e7-ae3e-563c04c5339a

www.itproportal.com/features/how-do-british-it-companies-use-outsourcing-to-europe-to-expand-their-skills-pool/

www.computerweekly.com/feature/Why-more-businesses-are-nearshoring-in-Eastern-Europe