Labour Party and anti semitism

Varian just answered that on the Brexit thread.

Corbyn and the antisemitic Labour party, is an issue that some would like to put aside. It is fortunate indeed that we have some people who are standing up and speaking out and in the process they are pilloried and threatened. This has been put under control very softly but effectively when people as individuals stood up for Margaret Hodge. Politics with a small p at it's very best. The power it seems is not always where we the public think it lies.

Stormfront is an Apple store in York. Unless there is another one.

There are four brexit threads

Dismiss racism to win an election? Not me. You honestly think Corbyn can lead an effective opposition?

This thread is Labour Party and anti semitism not brexit, you have several threads on that varian.

Clegg dismissed his principles and where did that get his party?

Forget the antisemitism row which has just served the interests of those who do not want an effective opposition.

Follow the nuance: Labour is edging towards ditching Brexit

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/13/labour-reversal-brexit-jeremy-corbyn

Away, just catching up. Thanks grumps, fennel and others who challenged stormer so well. I especially appreciate the Der Stermer references.

The group the new poster claims to belong to is based in America.

" grumppa Mon 13-Aug-18 16:11:37

I find it intriguing that a member of Jewish Voice for Peace should choose Stormer as their nom de plume, presumably unaware that Der Stürmer was a virulent Nazi propaganda newspaper."
I thought that too grumppa.
Those posts didn't ring true to me. There's a website called Stormfront. And an american one The Daily Stormer.
I hope GNHQ can check out the credentials of this poster.

Corbyn was at the wreath laying tribute to the terrorists who murdered the Israeli Olympians but he doesn’t think he was actively involved in it , this was in 2014, he wants to be PM with such a bad memory !

Rather like he has never spoken to an IRA member, shared a platform with one though !

Thanks, Anniebach, I did know that but forgot the details. I knew it was in the Thirties.

The couple had met in the Thirties at a meeting in London for supporters of Spain’s Republicans in the fight against Franco’s fascists.

I think Naomi Josling was at the Cable Street demonstration, according to Jeremy.

Corbyn’s parents met at a Spanish Republican meeting during the Spanish civil war

His own mother and father met at the demonstration against fascism at the now historic Cable Street,

What does that mean, apart from the fact that Corbyn's parents were left-wing activists who demonstrated against fascism? That was in 1936, long before Jeremy was born.

So don't bother apologising for what you believe in. It comes out as you post.

Indeed it does.

Thanks Allygran for taking the time to go through stormer's lengthy and rather accusatory posts. You've picked up on many points that concerned me, and no doubt others who are following this thread.

I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous.
Please do not judge us by those other sites, which you do appear to have done by condemning gransnetters as propagandists.

Are you based in the UK or in America Stormer?

Stormer
^ most of the AS remarks come under the banner of not agreeing with Israeli policy, many Jewish people in Israel also protest it's government let's not forget that fact^

You are talking here about other sites. It would be helpful if you could say what your view is on antisemitism in the Labour Party.

We recently and in earlier post's had a long discussion with PECS on the support of Palestinian Terror groups by JC and that this seems to equate to being against Israel and overflowing into some in the Labour party feeling able to persecute those in their own LP who stand up to and call out those who use anti-Semitic word's comments and actions against Jewish people in general. There is in my view a direct correlation to supporting Palestinian terror groups, who in 70 years have done so little to actually empower the now third, fourth generation refugees across the Levant in host Country's who refuse other than Jordan to absorb or integrate the Arab Muslim Palestinians. Lots of questions.

You say:
Because I am on such forums, and because people post such hateful things, though they are few and far between on the sites I visit, does that make me a party to their crime?

You answer your own question you say "No it doesn't, because I can't stop them coming on websites and posting such horrible things". What I would say that would very much depend on if you support or not what they are saying. If you take away the 'horrible' way they say what they say, you would have to question if you agree with the fundamental ideology they are putting over...is it antisemitic? Do you agree? Do you not agree? These are questions for you and you alone.

You also say:
I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous. What's happening now is as a direct consequence of our establishment being given carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim, Muslim against Christian, gay against straight, black against white, left against right, capitalism against democratic socialism, we are fighting one and other so much we fail to see what those at the top are doing.

Who gives people "carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim etc"? We have law's that protect all in this Country, can you explain this very sweeping statement? What do you think the people at the top are doing?

You go onto say:

Whilst we bicker they make the changes that at present are going to make living in the UK worse than it's ever been.

First I think I would prefer not to use the word "bicker". Debate, argue, discuss all healthy if annoying things we need to do to remain a free speaking UK. However, can you explain what you mean "make living in the UK worse than it has ever been"?

You also say:
We either want a socialist government without the interference of big money funding it, or we don't.

This although slipped in is a very big question, it is also a source of where you are coming from in terms of your politics, not a criticism, it just helps in responding.
Please identify and expand your thinking on this. Are you saying that financial support to the Labour Party should only come from the membership and individuals at that?

Or are you saying that we should Nationalise all industries?
Or are you saying just services like fuel, transport, waste water treatment to mention just a few?

You then go to express your desire:
I rather like the idea of us all having a voice for the good of our neighbours, who ever they may be.

How many would not agree with that Stormer!

You then say:

As for proof of who funds who, just look for the information through valid sites, it's there

Can you put up the links please?

You now offer something that appears to support your support of antisemitism in the Labour Party I might be wrong but that is what I seem to get from this comment:

Also I urge you to look at the Dispatches programme from Channel 4, aired on 20th February 2011, Peter Oborne, I keep spelling his name differently, scuse! Look out for Rabbi David Goldberg and Prof David Newman, they will explain the nuances.

I will certainly try to check these out although they are very old and as such not as relevant as they could be to this thread on antisemitism in the Labour Party of Jeremy Corbyn.

As you say here:

I am trying to be balanced here, but I apologise if you believe I'm not.

On this thread and indeed on News and Politics people very soon work out who is balanced and who is not. So don't bother apologising for what you believe in. It comes out as you post. As I said intelligent and well informed posters on here, don't underestimate them!

A if I didn't feel bullied before I came on here, this is evidence that I am being bullied and it's sickening

Being disagreed with, especially after such long and sweeping posts is not bullying. .

Stormer Hi I should say being a new comer to GN, when you post on here don't expect people just to accept what you say. Your dealing with intelligent, and in most cases well informed individuals.

It is not a forum on which you should expect people to agree with you. It is a sight where propaganda is very quickly disproved with fact. Posters ask us to prove what we say, when quoting our versions of fact. So links are very useful and helpful in understanding fully the points being made especially when you mention something like Hansard or other sources. Just thought this might help you.

Now to my response to one of your post's.
you say:
It would appear that I've opened up a debate that didn't agree with those who quietly want to go along with saying Corbyn et al are all just 'expletive Anti Semite Racists', Hodge to Corbyn, and 'expletive expletive' Austin to Lavery.

Well I think all posters love a debate being opened up. What is your evidence to support your view that Corbyn et al are not Anti Semites? Clearly you see the reasons that some feel he is?

You also say:
I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist

Why would you come onto Gransnet and not expect a site dedicated to grandparents, although some are not?

What is your reason for saying that this is a thread the misconstrues politics, can you say how?

You also appear to believe that our discussion on this thread is propagandist Why is that is it because it does not agree with your view or propaganda?

You also say:
^ I'm appalled that such subliminal mind gaming in a world so full of despair is alive and thriving on a site like this, it is a very worrying concept^

Can you explain what is subliminal about this thread?

Can you explain what you mean by mind gaming? This is a very propagandist term.

From what you shared with us it seem's that your world is truly challenging and I am so very sorry to hear of your Husbands situation, having a son myself who has a benign put progressive Brain tumour I have some understanding of the pressures of care. This can indeed make the world look like it is full of despair.

However, just standing back and looking outward is something I find very useful and the world oustside is not full of despair, the Country is doing very, well, almost full employment, the growth is 4% greater than the EU. We are escaping from the organisation that purports to be a Nation when it is a trading organisation. We will cease to be ruled by unelected people. So if your looking for subliminal messages, well I think we woke up and saw the subliminal messages that lead us into the EU .

Why stormer do you find GN News and Politics and this thread particularly a very worrying concept? Surely open discussion, about politics, and in this case a very current and deeply disturbing issue antisemitism inside one of our major Political party's a very worrying concept?

Welcome and I hope you enjoy the debate. I look forward to getting your response to my questions.

grumppa, oh

I have looked at Hansard, nothing about an investigation, there was a debate in the house , starts with a question asking that the house discuss anti semitism, ends with -

Question put and agreed to, resolved.

The only investigation I know of wax held by Baroness Shami Chakrabati , mmmmmm

I find it intriguing that a member of Jewish Voice for Peace should choose Stormer as their nom de plume, presumably unaware that Der Stürmer was a virulent Nazi propaganda newspaper.

Stormer you said: I never said AS didn't exist in the LP, it exists everywhere what I said was, look at Hansard, the government website and the fully documented investigation into the levels of AS within the parties, and it also states that AS has fallen within the LP since Corbyn's tenure.

Can you supply the link please.

sorrythe link didn't work ,I'll try again

Jewish Voice for Peace proud to stand in global solidarity against harmful definition of antisemitism and with human rights and freedom to protest
jewishvoiceforpeace.org
First ever: 40+ Jewish groups worldwide oppose equating antisemitism with criticism of Israel
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stormer, I have read again your comments on Jackie Walker, you said the film clip I referred to was secretly filmed to take things out of context, you also said you saw that address. It was given at a Momentum training day .

You also speak of Corbyn’s parents and Jackie Walkers husband,

Jackie Walker’s father was a member of the communist party

I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist
Free speech is allowed in a democracy; this is a site where posters, mainly older people who may or may not be grandparents, can air their personal views and enter into open discussion.

Your posts come across as propaganda to me (what I have read of them) Stormer.
If you can point out how you have been bullied then I am sure that GNHQ will take a look.