Labour Party and anti semitism

You are not being bullied stormer, you are being disagreed with, seems by me, I do not bully . As you are new to these threads may I explain? Most of us post our own opinions, we disagree often. We are not brainwashed by MSN we think for ourselves and and draw on our own experiences.

I voted for Corbyn in the leadership contest, bitterly regret it, I do not trust him, and I am angry my party has been taken over by Momentum.

My views which I reached after being a party member for over fifty years, a campaigner at every election, a campaigner who cannot forgive Corbyn for working against grass roots members after the 1983 disasterous election, we were door knocking, telephone canvassing, stuffing envelopes etc trying to win back labour supporters who left us because of the militants / far left in the party, Corbyn was running a campaign from his own home at the same time fighting to get the militants back in the party, i wish he had been honest and joined the communist party.

It would appear that I've opened up a debate that didn't agree with those who quietly want to go along with saying Corbyn et al are all just 'expletive Anti Semite Racists', Hodge to Corbyn, and 'expletive expletive' Austin to Lavery. I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist. I'm appalled that such subliminal mind gaming in a world so full of despair is alive and thriving on a site like this, it is a very worrying concept. And if I didn't feel bullied before I came on here, this is evidence that I am being bullied and it's sickening.

With respect I don’t think your posts are balanced, you posted of Margaret Hodge a councillor in Islington but no mention of Corbyn the M.P. who did nothing , this is not balanced is it ?

This is why I will not belong to groups, so one sided, their views or no view.

Sorry to learn of your husband’s ill health

Anniebech, I looked at that mural, and I for one just saw the 1% squeezing the rest, I didn't look for Jewish characteristics, I just plainly saw it initially as oppression before it came under AS scrutiny. I have been on forums that have had some terrible posts, the nature of which have mostly been simply racist, mainly Islamophobic, and posts relating to Eastern Europeans, Black people and homophobic remarks. They are all horrendous and uncalled for, most of the AS remarks come under the banner of not agreeing with Israeli policy, many Jewish people in Israel also protest it's government let's not forget that fact. Because I am on such forums, and because people post such hateful things, though they are few and far between on the sites I visit, does that make me a party to their crime? No it doesn't, because I can't stop them coming on websites and posting such horrible things. I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous. What's happening now is as a direct consequence of our establishment being given carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim, Muslim against Christian, gay against straight, black against white, left against right, capitalism against democratic socialism, we are fighting one and other so much we fail to see what those at the top are doing. Whilst we bicker they make the changes that at present are going to make living in the UK worse than it's ever been. We either want a socialist government without the interference of big money funding it, or we don't. I rather like the idea of us all having a voice for the good of our neighbours, who ever they may be. As for proof of who funds who, just look for the information through valid sites, it's there. Also I urge you to look at the Dispatches programme from Channel 4, aired on 20th February 2011, Peter Oborne, I keep spelling his name differently, scuse! Look out for Rabbi David Goldberg and Prof David Newman, they will explain the nuances. I am trying to be balanced here, but I apologise if you believe I'm not.

Oops, sorry, does the group Jewish Voice for Labour receive monies from Palastine ?

stormer, did you not say you were in a group , ‘ Jewish voice for Labour. I am a long standing member of the Labour Party, don’t belong to any group, never have, because of this I can speak for myself only and not what any group says, believes or thinks.

Jewish Voice for Labour are staunch Corbyn supporters are they not.

Anniebech, I voted remain, and the day after the vote I was crushed, there is a lot wrong with the EU, there is a lot wrong with Westminster, but we have to work with it. I would dearly love for there to be another referendum to the outcome, will we get it? I don't think we will, but I'll lobby my MP all the same. Mr Corbyn did apologise for the hurt caused by this debacle, and btw I never said AS didn't exist in the LP, it exists everywhere what I said was, look at Hansard, the government website and the fully documented investigation into the levels of AS within the parties, and it also states that AS has fallen within the LP since Corbyn's tenure. You twisted my words, I didn't say it didn't exist, I will now clearly state that the investigation by government showed categorically that there is less AS in the LP than any other party. As for Israeli funding, of course MP's have been funded by political offshoots of Israel, that's a fact, not internet based, fact based. Ruth Smeeth worked for BICOM before she was put in place for a LP seat. There is a list of all MP's and where their funds come from, FOI requests not needed because they are on each individual MP on government website, so it's not just 'being claimed' that Labour Friends of Israel or Conservative Friends of Israel are being funded by Israel, it's a fact. Why else would we have these groups within parliament? Westminster is as corrupt as the next government, if not more so, that's what we are fighting here. We want the CLP's to select MPs not have them flown in at the bequest of a Leader, which is what's happening now. That's what re selection is all about, letting the people choose who they want to represent us. Back to it's roots, back to what the Labour party stood for in Kier Hardy's day. There were many Jewish people who joined the LP in those days too.

Stormer, you post your views but don’t seem to listen, just as Corbyn admires a wall mural but doesn’t really look at it and belonged to an anti semetic forum but didn’t read the posts.

No offence but your posts are not balanced .

Will you post proof the MP’s you named are receiving monies from the Israeli Government ?

Corbyn admired a wall mural which was anti semetic, - seems he didn’t look closely at it !

Corbyn was on an abusive forum but left in 2015, the year he became leader, seems he hadn’t read the anti semetic posts.

Not observant is he !

I understand what you are saying, everything on the internet isn't true and in balance that goes for our newspapers and our MSM, but when you have factual television programmes with evidence being aired, then you have to be curios surely to get to the truth? Are you saying that Jewish people who have different politics are anti Semitic? That's the problem with the IHRA, and Mr Stern the author of the IHRA document has come out to say that the NEC's take on the tweaks to four of the 'examples' within that document have been made clearer and indeed been improved upon, he also went as far to as to say before these improvements it was a flawed document as when he put it together it was still deemed a work in progress, but now the Jewish Board of Deputies, a majority of whom are Conservative, want this flawed document to be enshrined as holy writ! There has to be debate from all sides surely, not just one vision to move forward. LemonGrove, I came here to post about my grandchildren moving away and how I was upset by this, and came upon this post by chance, but I hope you don't mean that I am not welcome on here, there is always a first time to post on any forum. Also you made reference to Corbyn admitting there was anti Semitism within the LP, most of these tropes were on the internet, and a small percentage were indeed within our ranks, a vast majority have been posted by unknowns, how do we police that? can any other political party police that? No more than we can stop all the visual and verbal nonsense that is posted, it's impossible. As for not taking everything I say at face value because it's my first post on GN!!! That makes no sense, I simply saw this thread whilst posting a gran related upset, and yes for the first time. Anything I have said is not here say, it is all evidence based, other wise I wouldn't have posted it. Anniebach you commented that Ms Walker stated that she didn't know the definition of anti Semitism, I saw that address and it was secretly filmed with the purpose to take things, as always out of context. She was actually opening up debate on what AS really meant, what it was, i.e. 'What is AS, uhmm! let's see! do I really know? Of course she knows, she is a black Jewish lady and her spouse is Jewish. Our democratic system has become so corrupt it's unworkable, that's the problem, that's what we are trying to engage with. Also regarding there being more AS within Labour there is an investigation carried out by Government, in 2016 that clearly states that the LP has less AS within it's home than any other party, go figure, that is not btw on tinternet, that is and can be viewed on Hansard, government website. On that report it has also stated and verified that AS within the LP has fallen since Corbyn's tenure, that is why we know this campaign to bring him down is based on mis information. We have been in the grip of neo liberalism now for over thirty years, Mr Blair carried that on in the name of Mrs Thatcher who also stated on record as having considered one of her greatest achievements as having been bringing New Labour onside. No offence, but when I see things not being given the full facts I have to say something, we have to have balance, for so long it has been one sided, and I won't stand idly by. As for Brexit, don't get me started. Over and out. I need to attend to my husband, he has brain damage and the help we need has been sadly lacking since 2010. That's why I'm passionate about the truth, that and as a retired nurse I see the damage done to our NHS. There is more that unites us all than divides, if only we would listen to one and other.

varian, most of the Labour MP’s want us to stay in the EU, Corbyn doesn’t

Yes you have spoken of Ian Austin Blinko, now it is being claimed he his taking monies from the Israeli Government

Today we learn the anti semitism within the Labour Party is a lie , beggers the question - why did Corbyn apologise for something which according to stormer doesn’t exist !

I can only reiterate what I've said before (can't remember if on this or another thread), Ian Austin is a local MP, known to be hardworking and an honourable man.

The SDP was not absorbed into the Liberal Party. The two merged to form the Liberal Democrats which is a centre left party campaigning for an open, tolerant society and championing the benefits of the UK remaining a member of the EU.

Anno, the SDP was absorbed into the liberal party, there is no SDP , Shirley even lost her seat. The Gang of Four wanted in the eighties what Blair and Brown accomplished in the nineties, a centre left party not a far left party

Jewish voice for Labour are strong Corbyn supporters lemon .

Margaret Hodge has shares in her families company, she is not involved with the running of the company.

As for the child abuse scandal, let’s put the full facts on record not Momentum facts.

Yes Margaret and the council made mistakes and she publicly apologised. Liz Davies a social worker appealed to the Islington North MP , Corbyn, she stated she was met with apathy.

May we have proof that Margaret Hodge , Ruth Smeeth and the others named are receiving monies from the Israeli Government ?

Also, if you want more evidence, Look the Dispatches programme, Where Peter Oberon gives insight into the Israel lobby within Westminster aired on 20th February 2011. Arm yourself with facts then you can decide. Also BICOM funded many Jewish MP's on the Left. Ruth Smeeth MP was employed by them. Prof David Newman and Rabbi David Goldberg are honest and truthful, but receive anti Semitic retorts. The programme is called 'Inside Britain's Israel Lobby'. See for yourself.

"look it up on the internet" because everything posted on the internet is true!

There is enough evidence to say that there is much antisemitism within the Labour Party and even Corbyn has said so!

Jackie Walker, on a training day for Momentum said she didn’t know the definition of anti semetismy.

She was vice chair of Momentum , explains much.

Stormer
This is your first post on GN that I have ever seen, and I simply cannot take all you say at face value.

We weren't 'absorbed into the liberal party', Annie, though some liberals would have liked to believe that. The current leader of the Lib Dems, Vince Cable, was originally a member of the SDP, as was the late Charles Kennedy. I always corrected people when they called me a Liberal and remain, to this day, a Social Democrat though I left the Lib Dems when they coalesced with the Tories.

I am a Labour member, I am also a member of Jewish Voice for Labour. There are many Jews within the Labour party and I can tell you now that the anti Semitic problem is not the problem you are being fed. For fifty years Jenny Manson has been a member of the LP. She has not experienced AS within our party in all that time, neither have many others within JVL, and there are many of us. Mike Cushman, Naomi Wimborne Idrissi, look them up on the web, all in their sixties, long standing members. We have had Jewish members suspended for speaking out in solidarity with the Palestinian problem, one of our most esteemed members Jackie Walker, herself a black Jewish lady has been suspended for giving a talk about what the term 'Holocaust' meant, and should we also include in that remembrance all non Jewish people who died in the atrocities. Ms Hodge and Mr Austin are not what they seem. The problem is in the corrupt establishment we live in. Many Jewish people who are true socialists are being victimised, indeed have been called 'the wrong sort of Jew'. How can that be right? The papers and news feeds are continually telling you to believe that Mr Corbyn is 'racist'. His own mother and father met at the demonstration against fascism at the now historic Cable Street, where Jew, Muslim, Christian, Black, White, Atheist, all marched against Mosely and the black shirts in the 1930's demonstration. He has called people 'friends' simply in a collective term, when he brought factions together who are mortal enemies in an attempt to get the two sides to talk. Wars have been won, in the end, not by bomb or bullet, but by talking and a lot of those people who hold incredible wealth were, and still are, made even more wealthy by war. As Tony Benn once said, 'if they can find money for war, they can find it for schools, hospitals and our service industries'. If you want to know more I can tell you a few home truths. The news is owned by the 1% and that is what we are fighting worldwide right now. Mr Sanders in America is another fine example of what should be happening for the American people. My advice to you would be do your own research, we are never too old to see the truth, and when you see what I have seen, you will be amazed at the amount of mistruths are being told. Look up Harry Lesley Smith, a man in his nineties, and had written many books on what is was like to be poor before the NHS. Not a Jewish man a staunch supporter of Mr Corbyn. I've been to his rallies, young, old, all races and creeds all coming together without our differences getting in the way, and it's uplifting. What the main stream media are not telling you is that over forty Jewish organisations world wide support Mr Corbyn's stance 100% and made that public by signing a declaration, the news didn't report this. The USA and the Israeli government and it's policies are to be treated with extreme caution. The Jewish organisations opposing Mr Corbyn just want socialism as brought to the table by Kier Hardy, Nye Bevan, Clem Attlee, to be trounced. The three Jewish newspapers that collectively told lies about Corbyn et al are all funded by Friends of Israel and the UK Conservatives. All conservative MP's automatically become Conservative Friends of Israel, CFI. What is happening on the left is that most MP's don't sign up to become Labour Friends of Israel, LFI. Those MP's who are signed up to LFI, Ruth Smeeth, Lucinda Berger, Ian Austin, Margaret Hodge, John Mann, Wes Streeting, to name a few are all funded by the Israeli Government. Many Israelis and Arabs marched in Israel a few weeks ago in solidarity against Netanyahu's policies, not on the news at all. Ms Hodge is a multi millionaire who paid no tax, or very little, on her businesses. She has offshore accounts and avoiding huge amounts of tax, not very socialist is it? She also colluded to hide evidence of child abuse which would have seen the perpetrators convicted. She is a shyster and not to be trusted, you can also look that up on the internet as well. No lies just facts. Sermon over, please don't listen to the MSM look these facts up for yourself, then make your decisions.

Yes we may remember them Maw but we also remember they failed and were absorbed into the liberal party.

But, all those years on we do remember Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Bill Rogers and Shirley while others have sunk without trace. I would happily support a gang of however many which included Yvette Cooper, Stella Creasy, Jess Phillips and Chuka Umunna!