Labour Party and anti semitism

Maizie, I couldn’t read that on the iPad, I will look on my computer tomorrow and promise I will tell you my thoughts on that email.

It wasn't his claims I was asking about. It was those contained in the email.

The question I'm asking is why has Ellman acted the way she has. Or, is what the email claims actually true?

I'll duck out now, I'm none the wiser and doubt if I ever will be.

Thank you winterwhite

I understand Maizie but surely all he claims is relevant ?

I like your calm, sensible posts PECS. You summarise these issues very well. Thank you.

The 'invasion' isn't relevant to the claim that Ellman was at the whole meeting and made no comment at the time.

I'm not really interested in who Tariq Ali supports, supporting something you don't approve of doesn't automatically make him a liar. I just was wondering what the truth of the claim about Ellman. (And the email wasn't written by him).

I don't want to join in this debate; I was just asking for clarification.

Yes PECS perhaps a thread on racism in the Tory party would be of interest ?

The sitting was adjourned at 5.10pm , so the meeting was during the day and those five men walked into a committee room whilst the house was sitting.

True I don’t like it Maizie, it brings back reminders of vox pox too ?

Yes if she was there how could she be shocked to learn what was said. If it is true why didn’t he go to the Guardian not swkakbox. I am sorry but I doubt the invasion of the five members of Zionist Federation, having been a guest several times i find it strange they were able to just walk into a committee room, and I can’t dismiss the fact that Tarig Ali was a supporter of the president of Venezuela.

Choosing Holocaust Memorial Day to hold such a meeting does prove Corbyn has no respect for this day.

He said he hosted the meeting , didn’t say he was only there a very short time . Wonder if it’s possible to check what debate on the evening of 27th January 2010

If any anti Corbyn people bother to actually read my posts you might see that I say there will be racism , including anti-Semitism, amongst members of all political parties. Also I am not wanting to change the thread, though it is usual for threads to meander, but just try to put forward reasons my opinion why there is such a heavy focus on anti semitim in the LP at the moment. We all know the Tory party has racist members too...Boris J has said some terrible things & J Hunt could not get his wife's country of birth correct ! You seem to use knee jerk politics avoiding critical thinking & not willing to even believe you may be wrong. For me life is full of shades of grey and doubt. I have to check it out with myself often.
The accusations of anti Semitism are born in JCs empathy with Palestine. If we do not look to see if he is right to support Palestine or look to see if Israel may not be perfect in its actions towards Palestinians and blindly believe what we are told then that is not debate. I have read a great deal about middle east politics, past and present. I have great empathy for those whose terrible life changing experiences in the Holocaust seeking safety in a homeland but equally understand that the Palestinians, whose history , culture, homeland are systematically being destroyed deserve a loud voice and some protection too.

I knew you wouldn't like skwakbox, Annie but in fairness I had to publish my source. However, what I was really after was a comment on the email.

You see I don't understand why an MP is condemning a meeting she sat through several years ago. Did she register any protest at the time?

And, if a Holocaust survivor was the person who spoke to the theme are people going to claim that he was anti-semitic?

Skwakbox is written by a UNITE activist !

Oh no, not skwawkbox again.

Five members of the Zionist Federation invaded Westminster,? poor security, when one thinks what one has to deal with when invited there as a guest by an MP

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201808/medium-650325-lucy-ellman-1.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201808/medium-857737-lucy-ellman-2.jpg

Can anyone explain this for me?

Thread and email images posted

twitter.com/skwawkbox/status/1024680059599241216

Allygran, you have what I lack , the ability to express your views articulately .

Yet I do challenged the Corbyn supporters regardless of the constant put downs.

I care for the Labour Party, it isn’t and has never been perfect but it has always been home to all races and creeds, and I stand firm with my views that Corbyn will destroy the party as we have known it for over 100 years.

It has been claimed on this forum that Corbyn worked with Mo Molam to bring peace in Northern Ireland, rubbish, he supported the IRA, Mo even went into the Maize to speak to loyalists and spoke to the IRA. Even this year Corbyn said he still supported a United Ireland, no PM can say this yet he wants to be PM.

He has today apologised for any distress caused at that meeting he held several years ago on Holocaust Day,he didn’t apologise for what was said. So proof he is still the same back bencher rebel , he must agree with what was said , he didn’t apologise for it.

I never, ever thought I would fear a labour government but with this communist as leader I do.

Fennel and Trisher do you believe that there is antisemitism in the Labour party?
Do you believe that Corbyn et al support Hamas and their terrorists activity in pursuit of their aims?

PECS This thread is about exactly what we have all been discussing, the persecution of those LP members who are standing up to antisemitism in the Corbyn Labour Party. The reason for the rise of the anti-Semitic attitudes being Corbyn et al's historic and current support for Hamas.

You would like it seems to change the topic to:
My debate is about how do we stop the use of anti-semitism from distracting from the the rise of nationalism and other extreme right policies?

So does this mean you do not believe there is anti semitism in the Labour Party?

Your topic thread Annibach draws attention to the persecution of Labour Party members who speak out against JC's support and encouragement of antisemite views within the party, largely as you will know better than most stemming from JC's long history of aligning himself with terrorist groups, amongst them Hamas. As recently as 2017 receiving financial campaign support from Ibrahim Hamami who is described as a vitriolic opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a supporter of the current wave of stabbings of Jews in Israel and a founder director of the pro-Hamas group Palestinian Affairs Centre by Andrew Gilligan.

With this level of involvement with just one that I have found pro Hamas influential supporter and activist, who lives in London by the way, there may be more. Is it any wonder that those who challenge his antisemite views in his own party are doomed to failure, persecution and ridicule.

Since he does not intend to change his political stance and support for Hamas and other terror groups in Palestine, he is hardly likely to acknowledge the complaints of people in the LP. He will and is getting rid of the irritant as he will regard them - those people who stand up to his anti-Semitic views whilst protecting and supporting of those in the LP who have been in dormant agreement with Corbyn over many decades and now in power, they are free to speak of their activist core beliefs and support Corbyn more openly within the Party.

You mentioned the IRA Anniebach. Your knowledge of this time in the LP with the JC activist's, including Ken Livingstone who has been protected by JC until recently, when he had no choice but to "let him go" to save himself from the spotlight being shone on their joint association with the IRA, in the form of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness et al over four decades. Livingstone and Corbyn as young politician attended the illegal IRA "funeral" of Bobby Sands. There is much evidence of Corbyn and Livingstones close association and support of the IRA terrorists and later when the IRA brought the fight to the ballot box in the form of a Political party in order to survive and legitimise their past.

What is disturbing about the Corbyn et al support for activist groups, with terrorist inclinations is that with that goes an unbalanced view of who those groups are against. By supporting one side so entirely, Corbyn et al loose the ability to see both sides of the issue, therefore can only support peace and harmony as seen by one side the side they are supporting. The deceit is what get's to me, the pretence of an amiable balanced hail -fellow -well met sort, when actually all his political life he has been a supporter of violent change in the form of terrorism. That should not surprise me since if as we believe he is, a Trotsky communist, then violent uprising is what he will believe in. Read Marx and Trotsky, both out of another time, with solutions for a time two Centuries ago now. But clearly Corbyn still has one foot in that grave.

Anniebach you know these guys and you have seen through the facade for years. It's good that these things are being challenged by Labour Party members and some in the Parliamentary Labour group, but as you say, there seems little support for those being persecuted for speaking out right now.

John McDonald has just spoken of graves in Jewish cemetries being vandalised and Jewish schools needing guards to protect them

OldMeg an interesting post. The values of the original founders of Israel were what would now be descibed as far-left in fact many were (shock! horror!) communists. Possibly as a direct result of the fascism they had witnessed in Europe. Kibbutz were originally run on very communist ideals which in many ways were contrary to Jewish culture with children sleeping communally and women working on equal terms with men so that the family did not predominate.

We should ? That is so familiar, brings back memories ?
Oh well, here we go again.

The real issue is the thread title , not Palestine and Israel , but diversions have their uses often when Corbyn and the Labour Party is the thread topic. “ let’s move on”

Liking or not liking JC isn’t the point.
Ignoring that the LP do have a problem with anti-semitism is definitely the point PECS ....as your above post demonstrates, turning it away by talking of the ‘extreme right’.

I know nobody on this thread other than from engaging in this discusdion. Stop distracting from discussion of a real issue.

We ? Is that the Royal we or are you forming a clique
OldMeg?

Annie and Lemon ..we have got your message; you do not like JC. You do not have to.
My debate is about how do we stop the use of anti-semitism from distracting from the the rise of nationalism and other extreme right policies? A brick was thrown through MPs window in Brent. This has had little coverage compared to when a brick was thrown at a building used by anMP opposed to JC & when all kinds of accusations wereaid at his door. This current incident involves an MP who is a JC supporter and also black. But it appears not newsworthy.