Deal or No Deal

I signed the online petition the People's Voice

Why would you choose to come to a country which is desperate to reduce the number of foreigners, and which has prioritised reducing rights for the 3.6 million EU citizens living in the UK instead of fulfilling its promise that nothing would change for them?”

twitter.com/IanDunt

Ulster says no – to no deal

Two headline messages emerged, both of which should be noted by the UK and Irish governments and the political parties in Northern Ireland.

We found little public support in Northern Ireland for the consequences of a no deal outcome for the border. This scenario would mean a hard north-south border, physical checks, maintained by the UK, without specific compensation for the costs after Brexit take place. Overall support for this was estimated at an average of 34%. While the low level of nationalist support for this option was to be expected, it was also the least favoured option for unionists at an average of 44%.

theconversation.com/new-brexit-poll-finds-a-plan-for-the-irish-border-both-unionists-and-nationalists-can-agree-on-99266

Meanwhile leading companies, including the engineers Arup, the accountants KPMG and lawyers Freshfields, increased pressure in the other direction. They warned of dire consequences if Mrs May’s deal is not closer to the EU than many expect.

The Professional and Business Services Council has sent a letter to the prime minister signed by a host of professional services firms including law, accountancy, consultancy, architecture, surveying and advertising, which collectively represent 4.6 million jobs and contributes £188 billion in gross value.

The letter is significant because, unusually, named representatives from specific firms have signed it, and it also calls on Mrs May to go further than many expect.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-s-brexit-peace-offer-sparks-tory-infighting-kvbvgvp5b

Britain would run out of food on this date next year if it cannot continue to easily import from the EU and elsewhere after Brexit, the National Farmers’ Union has warned.

Minette Batters, the NFU president, urged the government to put food security at the top of the political agenda after the prospect of a no-deal Brexit was talked up this week.

“The UK farming sector has the potential to be one of the most impacted sectors from a bad Brexit – a frictionless free trade deal with the EU and access to a reliable and competent workforce for farm businesses is critical to the future of the sector,” she said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Have we all got it in for the French?
I've just been reading how france has been ignored in the European unions effort to create new shipping routes linking Ireland with northan Europ.
The commission has bypassed French ports so freight from Ireland will go to Rotterdam,Antwerp and Zeebrugge.
And now a friend has called in from taking a delivery to London Gateway and there's lots of talk about diverting freight away from Dover/ Calais to the east coast ports that go to Belgium, Holland.
Macron won't be happy.

How Australia's meat industry plans to flood post-Brexit Britain with products banned in EU- Campaigners and farmers concerned by removal of 'technical barriers' to trade with Australia that could cause influx of lower quality products

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html

Now here is another horrible effect of brexit, but just this once it can never harm me. I don't eat meat. I'm not going to be harmed by chlorinated chicken from the USA either. If the nonsense that is brexit is ever allowed to happen, I predict a lot more people will become vegetarians.

I don't see how you reach that conclusion, petra.

Of course, some of them are UKIP MEPs so they'll cheer Boris on.

seen by the Independent from 20 uk MEPs
So the other 53 didn't agree.

We can look forward to all those lovely trade deals that Dr Fox will negotiate. Somehow I think he'll do a David Davis and jump ship.

The use of such language has been a significant factor in whipping up hatred of the EU.

We are now familiar with many terms which would have meant nothing to any of us a few years ago, but just because we constantly hear them it does not mean that we actually understand them - "No deal" is one.

Liam Fox, our so-called trade negotiator, has now said that leaving the EU with no deal is more likely than not. He should hang his head in shame.

An oldish story but pertinent here, I think.

Boris Johnson may be one of the Leavers who scorned the Remain side for supposedly saying that leaving the EU would lead to WW3 (they didn't, it was BJ himself who put that spin on it) but he looks to be bent on making it come true. Perhaps it wasn't 'Remain lie' after all...

March 2018

The Foreign Secretary has been sent a letter, seen by The Independent, from 20 British MEPs in six different parties, including Mr Johnson’s own. They argue that the casual use of the language of “war and conflict” to describe talks with the UK’s allies is “dangerous”, undermines negotiations and does “not promote an image of a deep and special relationship, but a hostile one”.
......
Mr Johnson has repeatedly used warlike imagery and Second World War references when discussing talks, including last year telling EU leaders not to give the UK “punishment beatings” for Brexit “in the manner of some World War Two movie”.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-war-words-uk-image-british-meps-brexiteers-a8242541.html

What else do you expect from the same propagandists who called judges "enemies of the people", a phrase which has been used by totalitarian regimes the world over?

Lies and scaremongering has been the stuff of our 'democratic' process for generations. The difference being that formerly the lies and scaremongering have been in the whole public domain and open for all to see and to make their judgements on. With the rise of social media and the targetting of information only to individuals who are carefully selected on their likelihood of being most influenced by it the lies and scaremongering are now not open for all to see. The HOC Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee Has released adverts placed on Facebook during the Referendum campaign:

These are the ones used by Vote Leave/BeLeave:

www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Fake_news_evidence/Brexit-Central-BeLeave-Ads.pdf

There are also lists of those posted by two other organisations which can be accessed here;

www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Fake_news_evidence/Ads-supplied-by-Facebook-to-the-DCMS-Committee.pdf

I wonder how many of you who are on Facebook saw any of these ads?

Of course, if you're not on Facebook there would have been no chance that you could have seen any of them.

Please don't anyone try to tell me that they are not influenced by advertising. It's a £billion business and hard headed businessmen running every imaginable kind of enterprise would not have huge advertising budgets if advertising had no effect.

The other point about the Referendum Campaign is that a number of the Leave organisations have been found to break the laws which regulate election expenses; to the extent that details of their lawbreaking have been passed to the police.

These laws are in place to ensure that elections (and referendum campaigns) are run fairly without cheating by any party. I note with horror that some Leavers are claiming that the Electoral commission was biased in its judgement. This is appalling. To cast doubt on the probity of the instruments of government can only lead to destabilization and anarchy.

Petra, I apologize: 17. 5 million.

Smileless, I don't know how we can call a process 'democratic' when it is based on lies and scaremongering; on both sides.

The 14 million voters you refer too Greta and I was one of them didn't vote to "jeopardize the future of 66 million people* they voted for what they believed was the best way forward.

The result of the referendum wasn't "so called democratic" it was democratic and the undemocratic rhetoric is coming from remainers who refuse to accept the result.

Greta
Wrong No. nearer to 17.5 million.

Vivian 123, Wed 01-Aug-18 23:39:15

We have history, Belgium and the EU do not. Let's take back what is ours and let's get on with it quickly. We have a great future ahead of us. Project fear and the doom mongers will be proved wrong. Rule Britannia!

I was left speechless by this. Is this the thinking that lies behind the so called 'democratic' leave-result of the referendum? The 14 million voters' right to jeopardize the future of 66 million people? Vivian, you predict that Project fear will be proved wrong. Let's hope your Project Hubris will be proved right.

It seems to me we have a shambolic, divided party in government and an opposition not worthy of the name. You really couldn't make it up!

The thing I can’t get my head around is why anyone thinks we have any say over the final outcome. We are one nation trying to leave a group of over 20 who have each been given a veto to use if necessary. By voting for Brexit this daft population has given the EU the power to determine what happens. It would have been far better to stay and fight to change the organisation from within because other countries wanted change as well. We threw our chance away.

Is there a British constitution? Written down?
Some of us remember the Britain we had before we joined the EU. The country was in an awful mess and now it is awaiting us once more. We just can't exist alone without the wealth of an Empire behind us.
I hope we make a deal-any deal and stay connected.
China and the US have made it quite clear that they are interested in a deal with the EU, after all the paperwork is done already and then all those lovely cars waiing to be imported.

Are LD voters aware that Nick Clegg has had a change of heart Re immigration.
From the FT 18 June 2018.
The belief that freedom of movement is an untouchable principle cannot remain unchallenged
A bit different to 2014 when he said:
I want to be unequivocal: freedom of movement between eu members states is a good thing. It's a cornerstone of European integration

I have often wondered how it was that the LibDems took the pasting for the bad policies of the previous election. Yes, the turn around on student fees was a shocker, but to be honest there have been worse. I suspect there is some sort of protocol which prevents honest speaking, but I would have liked to hear Clegg stand up and admit to the student fees fiasco (which he did) but also point out the dreadful policies they had prevented through being in coalition. It makes me mad when Tories bleat on about the increased personal tax allowances when most people are aware that this was forced through by the LibDems under Tory protest. Desperate times ( now) call for desperate measures so I would love to see someone from LibDems tell the truth about the coalition years which cost them so much, and point out that only they are the Remain party. As for Labour voters turning to UKIP, do they not realise what they are voting for? How can they go from left to extreme right, or does it not matter as long as the immigrants and/or the EU can be blamed and scapegoated for everything which is wrong in their lives.

The Liberal Democrats did put country before party when they reluctantly entered a coalition government with the Tories in 2010.

I was one of many LD party members who had soent many years opposing the Tories and would have been much more able to accept a Lib/Lab coalition.

However we accepted it and for 5 years we gritted our teeth and tried to console ourselves with the good policies that our party were able to enact and, even more importantly, the number of dreadful Tory policies which were blocked.

Of course we never got any credit for that and lost out because of Tory skullduggery and the venial right-wing press, but history may take a different view

Winterwhite
I think you'll find that both party's are more worried about the rise in the support for UKIP.
After the referendum and the general election UKIP members went back to either the conservatives or labour.
But now they're going back to UKIP because of the chequers white paper, they don't agree with it.