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Deal or No Deal

(88 Posts)
varian Tue 31-Jul-18 20:45:06

Deal or No Deal was a TV Show where contestants could, if they were lucky, win large sums of money. Even if they were unlucky, they did not lose money.

What we are now being faced with in the brexitshambles scenario is a choice between a very bad deal and a catastrophic no deal. Unlike the TV contestants, we have so much to lose.

Why on earth should the 48 million people living in the UK ever accept this when it becomes abundantly clear that the best future for our country would be to remain members of the EU??

Devorgilla Tue 31-Jul-18 21:46:57

I often ask myself the same question. We are on an unstoppable rollercoaster it seems to me. It would be great if we had a politican who went some way to resembling an adult with statesperson like qualities who would stand up and say we need to reconsider the whole shambles.

Anniebach Tue 31-Jul-18 21:56:21

If only Devor , if only

Peep Tue 31-Jul-18 22:06:27

Where have the other 18.5 million people disappeared to?

paddyann Tue 31-Jul-18 23:11:32

Any decent politicians who would have stood up for us have been barred from any negotiations ...e.g.Nicola Sturgeon who is well respected in Europe and further afield and her party both in Westminster and Holyrood.
Of course as we are being treated as a "region" and not a country theres no chance of the 62% who voted remain here ever getting an opinion or making a difference.Thats UK politics for you!

Vivian123 Tue 31-Jul-18 23:52:36

Varian, this is of course, a matter of opinion.

Over 50% of those who voted decided that the UK will be better off outside European control.

I admit that not all those eligible to vote, actually voted, but everybody had a chance and the majority who did vote, voted OUT.

In all elections, the turn out is never 100% and those that didn't vote have to accept the will of the majority.

European Common Market could have been a wonderful thing, if it had been left as a common market, just for trade. Unfortunately it became a state of Europe, with rules and regulations being made in the way that, once independent, Countries had to observe, European Courts telling us how we must administer laws.

The British Constitution has been around for many more years than Brussels has existed. It has served us well and has been followed by many Countries. The US, Australia, New Zealand, India, West Indies and many others. It works and is much fairer than that imposed on us, at the moment.

I do feel sorry for Scotland, who did want to remain shackled to Europe. I take it that Scotland is doing well from European subsidies. Unfortunately, the English are paying a small fortune to Brussels for it,

Prior to the referendum in the 1970s, we traded well with our Commonwealth Cousins and continue to do so, New Zealand Lamb, West Indian fruit etc. There is no reason why this shouldn't continue, as it does, at the moment.

There is worry that the car industry will disintegrate. If that is so, then why are foreign companies expanding their plants in the UK?

Europe needs the UK and is terrified of losing the billions that we have to pay, each year. Only Germany pays more. The money that will remain in our Country should offset anything that we receive, at the moment, from the EU. We are paying for what we receive, we don't get more back. It is the smaller economies that win with Europe. Oh! and France, of course. We pay in much more than we get out.

There are a lot of people who are making big money from Europe and they do not want to see the gravy train disappear. All MEPs will lose their vast salary, as will the British, unelected, commissioners. Just look at the Kinnock family, who made a fortune from Europe and did nothing to help this Country.

The best place for GREAT BRITAIN is in GREAT BRITAIN, trading with our allies. The US is awaiting us. China is awaiting us. The scope is vast and we can prosper better away from the shackles imposed on us by the EU.

Enough of my rant, I haven't even mentioned Border control, but that can wait for another day.

varian Wed 01-Aug-18 00:55:30

I should have said the 48 million who did not vote for brexit ( and at least some of the 17 million who did)

Anniebach Wed 01-Aug-18 09:11:35

The majority who voted voted out, we cannot know how those who didn’t vote would have voted

varian Wed 01-Aug-18 10:28:26

"No deal” is not better than a bad deal. A no-deal Brexit is the worst possible outcome. It would be catastrophic for people and businesses on both sides of the Channel. It would be a disaster at the Irish border. It’s therefore incredibly concerning that no deal is looking ever more likely – with both the UK and EU ramping up preparations for this worst case scenario.

It’s worth repeating what “no deal” actually means. According to the government’s own secret analysis, details of which were leaked to the Sunday Times in June, we’d see food and fuel shortages in a couple of weeks (and much earlier for some parts of the country), we’d struggle to get medicines, and operations at the Port of Dover would collapse “on day one”.

Is this really what anyone wants?

gillybob Wed 01-Aug-18 10:44:19

I think the problem was Vivian123 that no-one quite believed that a Leave vote could possibly win and so all of those who should/would/could have voted Remain just sat back and expected others do if for them, except it back fired in such a catastrophic way didn't it?

FlexibleFriend Wed 01-Aug-18 11:06:41

The majority voted out and those who didn't vote don't count because for whatever reason they chose not to have a say.

gillybob Wed 01-Aug-18 11:10:21

For the reasons I gave above Flexi. No-one really believed that Leave could possibly win !

I remember telling family members to get out and vote, but they didn't as they thought there was no chance of a leave vote winning and their little vote wasn't needed. How many others felt like this?

Teetime Wed 01-Aug-18 11:13:35

Vivian123 I rarely comment on the political threads but well said I agree with everything you said.

Smileless2012 Wed 01-Aug-18 17:06:30

Why does it matter how many didn't bother to vote because they thought it was a done deal and the vote to remain would be in the majority?

Perhaps those who didn't bother to vote for whatever reason simply didn't regard the referendum as important as those who did vote. If something matters to you, you do what you can to make it happen, and if you do nothing, you're in no position to complain if the end result wasn't what you wanted or expected.

IMO it's ridiculous to go on about those who didn't vote and to second guess whether or not the result would have been different if they had.

If there were to be second referendum which I very much doubt and hope wont happen, IMO only those who voted the first time around together with those who weren't eligible to vote then, but are now, should be able to do so.

Anyone who couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides and vote on such an important issue shouldn't be given a second chance to do so because they don't like the decision made by the majority who could be bothered.

petra Wed 01-Aug-18 17:38:32

Have they brought out Jeramy Hunts stunt double?
The probability of a no deal is increasing by the day until we see a change of approach from the European Commission who have this view that they just need to wait and Britain will blink.
This is just a profound misunderstanding of us as a nation
When did Jeramy start batting for the uk?

winterwhite Wed 01-Aug-18 17:40:15

We don’t know how the non-voters would have voted, do we? Assuming the same proportion Leave to Remain as those who did vote doesn’t get us very far.
The people making ‘big money’ out of Europe, and it is harsh to single out MEPs, are as nothing compared to those who govern for the rich, whose philosophy increases inequality and who see no harm in the poor being expected to wait till 2050 for any benefits from Brexit to filter through to them.

gillybob Wed 01-Aug-18 17:41:43

Perhaps those who didn't bother to vote for whatever reason simply didn't regard the referendum as important as those who did vote. If something matters to you, you do what you can to make it happen, and if you do nothing, you're in no position to complain if the end result wasn't what you wanted or expected

I totally agree with you smileless

Anniebach Wed 01-Aug-18 17:55:12

Wise words gilly

MaizieD Wed 01-Aug-18 18:08:11

f there were to be second referendum which I very much doubt and hope wont happen, IMO only those who voted the first time around together with those who weren't eligible to vote then, but are now, should be able to do so

That would indeed be a subversion of democracy.

People have every right to choose not to use their vote but no-one has the right to take it away from them. That would lay the way open to tyranny.

varian Wed 01-Aug-18 19:00:39

Jeremy Hunt on Brexit: 'We are heading for no deal by accident'

Is this really what it comes down to, because some 17m misguided people wrote a suicide note the entire nation of 65 or 66 million people have to jump off a cliff????

petra Wed 01-Aug-18 23:08:13

From Michael Burrage, Harvard Economist.
exports by the uk to 111 countries outside the eu under WTO rules grew by 2.9% between 1993-2015.
this was more than 3 times greater than the 0.9% growth in exports to eu countries in the same period and 1% higher than the trade with the 62 countries which have trade agreements with the eu
These are figures that 'they' don't want you to know.
These are the figures that prove we will be better off outside the eussr.

MaizieD Wed 01-Aug-18 23:37:22

Have you a link, petra?

Vivian123 Wed 01-Aug-18 23:39:15

We have to disregard those who didn't bother or couldn't be bothered to vote. The fact is that a majority of those that thought the referendum important enough to turn out, decided that they had had enough of being governed from Brussels and wanted to take back British control. The millions who, obviously, couldn't give a damn, do not have or deserve a say in what happens next. They had their chance, as we all did and the result must stand. We must not go the Irish way of voting until the result, that the minority want, is attained. We have voted and that is final. Let's get on with the job of ditching government from Belgium, which itself didn't exist until 1830, as a distinctive Country. The Countries of the UK have existed from time immemorial and as United Kingdom from 1603, when James 1st became King. We have history, Belgium and the EU do not. Let's take back what is ours and let's get on with it quickly. We have a great future ahead of us. Project fear and the doom mongers will be proved wrong. Rule Britannia!

varian Thu 02-Aug-18 14:03:59

A no-deal Brexit could see Britain lose as many as 92,000 science and technology jobs by 2030, a report by Cambridge Econometrics found in January.

Sunny82z Thu 02-Aug-18 20:07:31

I quote, " could mean for science", no hard evidence then ? The millennial bug was going to bring the world to chaos; as I recall everything was fine on 1/01/2000. Voting to leave the EU would bring the economy of the UK to it's knees, the pound dropped in value yes but, where is the major down turn we were promised by project fear and, further the City of London would be decimated by firms and jobs leaving.........a few have gone. I voted remain but I live in a democracy so therefore I bow politely to the majority that voted to leave, and will continue to believe in, support and, cheer my Country on, come what may.