If there was another EU referendum Part 2

Apologies, I should have said “both Conservatives and Labour” in my post above.

Quite agree Varian. The GE was not a referendum.

We have had this nonsense of "two votes for brexit" repeated enough times. Repeating nonsense again and again does not make it true.

I think Ali G must have been voting in a different General Election than me in June 2017.
Brexit was a minor part of the manifestos (apart from Remain advocating LibDems) as both Conservatives and Tories unfortunately seemed to accept at that time that Brexit was “the will of the people”.
I remember the Dementia Tax from the Tories, and the abolition of university tuition fees from Labour were the major issues in the headlines at the time.

Lots of people voted for other things in the GE- thinking Brexit done and dusted- in my constituency nationalisation of railways/ rail fares a big selling point for Labour. Our candidate ( new MP) said she was anti Brexit and got in with a huge majority. If it was all about Brexit the Tories would have got a huge landslide but we all know what happened then.

Well, last year's serious flu outbreak came from Australia!
And I do not say that in a light-hearted or flippant fashion because I know of the devastating effects that had both there and here.

I do think that must be a very 'worst case scenario' and cannot see how they came to that conclusion at all.

A no-deal Brexit could increase the risk of a Europe-wide pandemic, according to the British Medical Association.

The doctors union warned in a new briefing paper shared with The Independent on Thursday that crashing out of the EU without a deal will leave the UK more vulnerable to outbreaks of deadly infectious diseases.

It says that the UK’s ability to coordinate responses to emerging threats, such as the current outbreak of measles or seasonal flu, will be seriously undermined, making it harder to stop infections spreading across borders.

With UK government admitting it is stockpiling medicines in the event of a no-deal scenario, the British Medical Association warns this is proof that the devastating impact of Brexit on the nation’s health has been neglected.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-no-deal-nhs-pandemic-bma-final-say-voters-referendum-a8493221.html

Mama and chrystal here is one I did earlier for Bridgeit you might have missed it.:
Allygran1 Tue 14-Aug-18 15:20:22
Bridget you and I will not agree on this matter. Whilst I accept your point about negatives and positive for both remain and leave, I cannot agree with you on the need for a second vote. We have already had two votes, one advisory the referendum, that result was taken on advice by the Government and acted upon to leave the EU. The second vote a GE which had both Conservative and Labour party's standing for election on a Brexit mandate, both party's got in one as Government re-elected and the other as Opposition, both supporting Brexit. By the time of the GE those who did not feel sufficiently informed at the referendum were surely very well informed on Brexit, the EU the types of negotiations that had gone on in the interim, both in Parliament, and in the media endlessly. If people had not by the time of the GE understood that they thought leaving the EU was for them or Remaining in the EU was for them then I do to know how much information people need to make a decision. At the GE had they wanted to spurn Brexit then they should have voted Liberal Democrat or one of the other Party's that clearly stood on a Remain in the EU mandate. There were options to the Pro Brexit Party's.

The Government got into power with a reduced number of MPs but with an increased share of the vote, greater than it had been since the 1980's for any party.

Had we not have had the GE then some would be more ready to accept your argument that people made a mistake and want another go...I find that weak but could consider even that sort of weak reason. However we had a period between the referendum and the GE when Brexit was the only thing in the Media, the negotiation, the EU the whole subject was covered, therefore to me there is no excuse for not being informed by the time of the GE and as there were both pro and anti Brexit party's and the option not to vote at all, there is no excuse for not knowing what way to vote on Brexit by then.
These are my reason's for not supporting a second referendum.

crystaltipps....Not all about Brexit. However, you would have had to have been out of the Country not to know that the majority of the media coverage, including TV, Radio and not to mention the many interviews and question programmes that covered Brexit. Perhaps you were abroad at the time.

Me neither, crystaltipps.
She also seems to conclude that all votes for Labour were votes in favour of Brexit too. Exactly how she expected would-be Labour supporters who were not pro-Brexit to vote, I don't know. Did she expect them to abstain, or vote for the Lib Dems even if they totally disagreed with all Lib Dem policies except its anti-Brexit stance?

although I do remember her saying ^strong and stable government as if trying to convince herself ^crystaltipps

I did think the snap election was about Brexit though, crystaltipps?

Her stated reason was to strengthen her hand in Brexit negotiations. With official Brexit talks with the EU due to start in mid-June, Mrs May claimed Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems would try to destabilise and frustrate the process in Parliament.
"If we do not hold a general election now, their political game-playing will continue," Mrs May said in her address to the country, "and the negotiations with the European Union will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled election."
By gaining a fresh five-year term in 2017, Mrs May could look forward to a longer bedding-in period for the fruits of her negotiations. The extra time could be used to negotiate free trade agreements that are seen as critical to the UK's post-Brexit future.

From the BBC website 9th June 2017

I’m not sure why allyg assumes the GE was all about Brexit when it wasn’t. May said when she called the election it was to provide “strong and stable government”. It didn’t. Quite the reverse which is why we are in such a mess.

I dont my think my post mentioned people making a Mistake.
I said we voted without actual facts, that IMO is the Mistake

Bridget you and I will not agree on this matter. Whilst I accept your point about negatives and positive for both remain and leave, I cannot agree with you on the need for a second vote. We have already had two votes, one advisory the referendum, that result was taken on advice by the Government and acted upon to leave the EU. The second vote a GE which had both Conservative and Labour party's standing for election on a Brexit mandate, both party's got in one as Government re-elected and the other as Opposition, both supporting Brexit. By the time of the GE those who did not feel sufficiently informed at the referendum were surely very well informed on Brexit, the EU the types of negotiations that had gone on in the interim, both in Parliament, and in the media endlessly. If people had not by the time of the GE understood that they thought leaving the EU was for them or Remaining in the EU was for them then I do to know how much information people need to make a decision. At the GE had they wanted to spurn Brexit then they should have voted Liberal Democrat or one of the other Party's that clearly stood on a Remain in the EU mandate. There were options to the Pro Brexit Party's.

The Government got into power with a reduced number of MPs but with an increased share of the vote, greater than it had been since the 1980's for any party.

Had we not have had the GE then some would be more ready to accept your argument that people made a mistake and want another go...I find that weak but could consider even that sort of weak reason. However we had a period between the referendum and the GE when Brexit was the only thing in the Media, the negotiation, the EU the whole subject was covered, therefore to me there is no excuse for not being informed by the time of the GE and as there were both pro and anti Brexit party's and the option not to vote at all, there is no excuse for not knowing what way to vote on Brexit by then.
These are my reason's for not supporting a second referendum.

Allygran1, you along with the rest of us must have realised that there would be negatives & positives for both remain & leave. The vote was taken with very few facts & a lot of speculation, theories, emotion,patriotism, discontent,IMO this was not the best time or scenario to take an in/ out vote.
It’s like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.
We did not have cold hard facts to hand,ok there may have been some who had a bit more insight into how it might be, but there again there was an equal amount saying the opposite. I beleive the country has lanced a boil & it should now go for a 2nd vote so that the outcome can be accepted by all.

Bridget of course you knew! You are intelligent even though you and I do not agree, we both know how to research. Your not telling me are you that you did not research anything before you placed your remain vote? Well I did, and a lot of what was said by the Remain campaign helped me make up my mind that we had to get out of the EU or go down with the sinking ship. Remain is the establishment and a mainly elite one at that. Leave is the grassroots who live the life imposed on them by EU rules. Most of us are not cafe culture or wine bar chattering classes. Just people trying to do our best for our families, children and grandchildren. Living the life imposed by and unelected trading organisation determined to homogenise, neutralise 28 Country's and failing as we can see by the economic state of the 27 and the political extremism that the EU has managed to create through it's 'freedom's" regulations and directives in every trade agreement.

MarthaBeck would you like to contribute then? If you feel the debate is poor, your additions would be welcome.

What would you like to say?

Nigglynellie, well said, concise and hit the nail on the head!

This is an article in today’s Guardian written by a woman who is one of those who will be greatly affected by Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/brexit-ruin-lives-british-citizens-europe-peoples-vote?CMP=share_btn_link

Yes thank you Marthabeck, I agree.

The biggest problem IMO with Brexit is that no matter how much we All say or beleive our voting decisions were correct the truth is we simply did not/ do not know.

I am beginning to agree that there should be a second vote when we actual know the details & consequences .

I am amazed at the number .of inaccurate statements in threes responses almost straight out of the columns of the Mail. I do wish we could get rid of the bigotry and have a sensible debate. GN would be far more interesting and less self opinionated. We can all learn by a listening to opposing views as long as they are accurate and not sheer deceitful propaganda.

That's one of the problems with the EU, we have no influence! David Cameron proved that on his ill fated trip before the referendum. The so called parliament is a rubber stamp affair totally in hoc to the Commission who call all the shots. How can one voice influence anything?! Nothing will change while other members are reliant on the EU for their financial well being. What a clever trap for them to fall into and they have! They have actually been warned to tow the brexit line or else risk their handouts; recipients of vast pensions, Mandelson etc have been warned to do the same, support the EU or else!! Influence?!!!! A flea on the back of an elephant, an irritant perhaps, but nothing more!

Allygran1, you have at last hit the nail on the head
ie Boringly predictable, ring any bells ?

It is so easy to Cut and Paste articles but they are ALL biased and very selective of any facts or truth, the Guardian is blatantly "remain ", most other sources have been "Brexit".
I'm one of those who have not changed my mind, there are lots of issues that I dislike the EU for but ON BALANCE it is better to be in Europe, we should be on the inside influencing not on the outside carping.

Nothing Allygran1 posts is going to change my mind because the vision of Brexit promoted during the referendum campaign was blatantly misleading and now discredited. We are not going to get a cherry picking deal vaunted by the Brexit lobby that is very clear. For the UK a Norway type deal where we are allowed privileges but have to obey EU rules is the worst of all deals, Norway pays dearly for their "independance".

If it does turn out to be no deal there will of course be trade agreements with every country including the EU but it will not be the free, easy trade we have been used to. The one thing I agree with Rees Mogg on is that it will take a generation to see the benefit. MAYBE.

Honestly alyg, I don't know how you've got the patience to constantly be dragged over the same old chestnuts!! You deserve a medal!!
The EU is,absolutely fine for the wealthy, ambitious politicians, industrial magnets, Mandelson, Blair el al! and while I appreciate that money is all important, virtually taking the place of God, there are still people amazingly who actually do have other priorities, honesty, compassion to name but two, most of which, if not all the EU seems sadly lacking. For the non moneyed unambitious of us, yes we do exist! its an awful organisation and rotten to its core!