If there was another EU referendum Part 2

A Die Welt article, published on Friday under the headline “The British do not expect much from Brexit”, said of the new poll provided to the German newspaper that 46% of Britons today would vote for remaining in the EU as opposed to 41% against. “In the meantime, a narrow but constant majority is turning against Brexit,” the paper reported.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/31/peoples-vote-seeks-to-sway-eu-newspapers-with-blind-brexit-poll

Did anybody catch the latest news conference from Barnier and Raab a few minutes ago? It was on Sky News but the BBC did not show it live.

It is looking a little more promising when Barnier says :

The EU is prepared to build an ambitious partnership with the Uniuted Kingdom "

They covered various subjects and whatever side of the argument you fall on it may hold some answers to the questions that have been ongoing , daily for 2 years now.

This is an interesting take on the present situation from that right-wing publication, The Spectator.-

"The People’s Vote have one big advantage: their opponents are in disarray"

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-peoples-vote-have-one-big-advantage-their-opponents-are-in-disarray/

The GMB trade union is polling its members about Brexit, as Labour campaigners for a second referendum look to trade unions to exert pressure on the leadership in the run-up to next month’s party conference.

Brexit is likely to be a contentious issue when Labour members gather in Liverpool. Campaigners say dozens of local parties have passed motions urging the leadership to back a vote on the final deal.

Raab offers us cotton wool on no-deal Brexit. The reality is hair-raising

In an email sent to GMB members, the general secretary, Tim Roache, wrote: “GMB wants to hear from members about your views on Brexit, and whether you think there should be a public vote when we know what the deal looks like.”

Labour MPs keen for their party to endorse a second referendum hope union leaders, who will meet at the TUC’s annual congress in Manchester, will send a message to the party leadership calling for voters be given the chance to reverse Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/28/gmb-asks-members-for-views-on-brexit-deal-peoples-vote

More than half (51%) of Leave voters and two-thirds (65%) of the public now believe the outcome of Brexit negotiations will be bad for Britain, ...

uk.businessinsider.com/a-majority-of-leave-voters-now-believe-mays-brexit-deal-will-be-bad-for-britain-2018-7

Why on earth should well all just agree to something which 65% of the public believes will be bad for Britain?

It is very likely that we may leave but it is no inevitable if good sense can prevail. Our democracy was subverted by vested interests in the right wing press and the blatant lies of the leave campaign who have been found guilty of breaking electoral rules.

Surely we have learned a great deal in the last two years and when (if) we ever get an agreed deal, it should be put to the people so we can decide whether that looks like we would be better or worse off than we are now?

I am not a member of any political party and as someone who cares about the integrity of our democracy I'm going to hope that good sense will prevail and there wont be another peoples vote.

We had a peoples vote more than 2 years ago and the majority of the people who voted, voted for Brexit.

To have a vote to decide whether to accept the final terms of the so called negotiations by TM and her government, with an organisation that doesn't seem to understand the meaning of negotiations, or remain in the EU is to subvert the result of the referendum to leave.

We are leaving. It's in our's and the remaining EU members interest to have a deal. No deal wont be the best outcome for us and it wont be the best outcome for them either.

If you are a Gransnetter who is a member of either the Labour Party or the Conservative Party and you care about the integrity of our democracy, what are you going to do about this?

The Conservative Party has banned one of its own MPs from advertising events at the party's annual conference in Birmingham, where he was due to back proposals for a second EU referendum. Tory MP Phillip Lee is to speak at two events debating calls for a "People's Vote" on the final EU deal.

One is to be held at the Hilton Garden Inn, Brindley Place, and the other is at the Novotel Hotel, on Broad Street. The October conference will include hundreds of similar meetings, known as "fringe events", and they will be advertised in a directory distributed to everyone attending the conference, including party activists and journalists.

But the party has said that it is refusing to include a listing for these two events. No explanation has been given.

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/tories-ban-pre-remain-campaign-15059510

"Jeremy Corbyn faced a growing revolt over Brexit today as Labour MPs and activists stepped up demands for a party conference vote on whether to back a second referendum. The call was galvanised by a national poll claiming 63 per cent of party members want a vote on whether to accept the final terms of Theresa May’s negotiations with the EU or stay in the EU.

Only eight per cent were against the idea, according to the YouGov survey commissioned by the People’s Vote group which was set up by opponents of Brexit."

Report from 10th August 2018

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mps-call-for-party-conference-vote-on-second-brexit-referendum-a3908316.html

Has anyone else noticed the striking similarity between the attitudes of the Tory and Labour party managers to their own members who actually want to discuss brexit, the most important issue of our times?

What is going on in our so-called democracy?

Labour has been considering how to head off a concerted attempt by remain-supporting members to stage a vote at its annual conference calling for a second referendum, to avoid what would be an embarrassing defeat for Jeremy Corbyn on the party’s Brexit policy.

‘It’s not a done deal’: inside the battle to stop Brexit. About 130 constituency Labour parties (CLPs) were understood to have expressed willingness to back a motion in favour of a second vote, drafted by the pro-Corbyn campaign group Labour for People’s Vote. To avoid a damaging defeat, one option is to invite delegates to support a Brexit policy statement that would refer to holding a second referendum, but only in exceptional circumstances.

It could be similar to a watered-down resolution that was supported at Unite’s policy conference in July, which was offered by the union leadership to defuse a similar situation.

Major new polling of 10,000 people suggested Labour voters backed a second referendum by 63%, with just 8% opposed, in one of the largest surveys of public opinion since the referendum to leave the European Union.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/09/corbyn-hopes-to-avert-calls-for-public-vote-on-brexit-at-conference

Conservative HQ has barred the Conservatives for a People’s Vote campaign from publishing an entry in the official party programme for October’s conference in Birmingham.

www.channel4.com/news/by/michael-crick/blogs/conservatives-bar-peoples-vote-campaign-from-conference-brochure

I have signed the change.org petition called final say which is asking for us to have a say in the final Brexit deal.

Dear Gus!!

The former cabinet secretary Gus O’Donnell has compared Brexiter ministers and MPs to snake oil sellers after sustained attacks upon senior civil servants for lacking impartiality.

Lord O’Donnell, who served under Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron, said attacks on Whitehall officials were “completely crazy” and “ridiculous”.

His comments follow claims by the Brexit minister Steve Baker, who rubbished government forecasts, and the prominent Tory Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg, who accused the Treasury of “fiddling the figures” to show Britain would be worse off outside the EU, whatever the outcome of the negotiations.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/ex-top-civil-servant-tory-brexiters-snake-oil-sellers

Bo Rothstein, Professor of Government at Oxford University explains the need for a second referendum-

" Political legitimacy is not only dependent on a decision getting support by the majority. In addition, the epistemic theory of democracy points to the need for the decisions to also be in some sense “true” and “right”. Decisions need to be “true” in the sense that they are not based on what is known to be factually wrong. "

www.ox.ac.uk/news-and-events/oxford-and-brexit/brexit-analysis/second-referendum

Much as I hate the thought of cut’n’paste from Wikipedia, this is what Wikipedia says about the 2017 General Election campaign:

Negotiation positions following the UK's invocation of Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union in March 2017 to leave the EU were expected to feature significantly in the campaign, but did not. The campaign was interrupted by two major terrorist attacks in Manchester and London, with national security becoming a prominent issue in the final weeks of campaigning.

Theresa May was asking the electorate to back her Brexit stance by calling the snap election. But the electorate didn’t endorse her as the Conservatives lost their majority of 17 seats and the minority Tory government had to be propped up by the DUP.

Auto correct didn’t like “soi -disant “ !

Jalima1108
Maybe you didn’t pay attention

Joelsnan Is there really any need for this sort of schoolmarmy tone in a discussion between (soi-distant) adults?
We’ll be told to stand in the corner and take 100 lines next!

Jalima1108
Maybe you didn’t pay attention.
TM called an election for two reasons
1. Had the election not been called the current term of office would have expired just as we would be leaving the EU. Therefore election campaigning and Brexit negotiating would have proved very difficult. By holding an election the winning party gained a full term in office meaning the election will be called one year after Brexit.
2. TM as the new leader was getting (and continues to get) a load of flack. In going to the country she had hoped to get a good strong mandate from the electorate for the quickly created manifesto which along with the Labour Party manifesto acknowledged the earlier referendum result and invoke article 50. It was mentioned in party political broadcasts, written in the media and in door to door campaigning.
Although the conservative majority was weakened the actual number of voters who voted Conservative was in the majority.

"two votes for brexit"

How did I miss that?

Varian repeats endlessly that 48 million didn’t vote for Brexit, clearly a nonsense but we keep seeing it pop up time and time again.
Non voters, from the EU, toddlers who can’t vote, teenagers who can’t be bothered to vote etc etc.Nobody knows how they would have voted had they actually been able to.
It’s one of those half truths that have nothing to do with the referendum in any meaningful way.

Well try not doing it then Ali.

varian Thu 16-Aug-18 18:16:04
We have had this nonsense of "two votes for brexit" repeated enough times. Repeating nonsense again and again does not make it true.
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mostlyharmless Thu 16-Aug-18 18:40:37
Apologies, I should have said “both Conservatives and Labour” in my post above.

Quite agree Varian. The GE was not a referendum

.Varian: "Repeating nonsense again and again does not make it true".

How true!