Exit from Brexit

Just look at the way this is seen from the USA-

"Thousands of Britons took to the streets of Central London on Saturday for a “People’s Vote” march, demanding that the government call a new referendum on Britain’s exit from the European Union.

By 3 p.m., organizers said the rally had drawn nearly 700,000 people to what the event’s website calls “The Independent March for the Future,” a cross-party, grass-roots campaign by groups such as Britain for Europe, Scientists for EU, Our Future Our Choice, and Wales For Europe & InFacts.

Mayor Sadiq Khan was among those set to address the march, which was to end in Parliament Square. Organizers expected the protest to be the biggest of its kind, with about 150 buses ferrying thousands of demonstrators from across the country to London.

A petition by the groups has drawn more than 320,000 signatures, with a goal of 350,000 goal. It says:

“We have watched the chaos unfold in cabinet and the turmoil in negotiations with dismay and foreboding. None of us voted for a bad deal or no deal that would wreck our economy. Nor do we accept that either is inevitable. If the Brexit deal is rejected by Parliament, then we, the people of Britain, should have the democratic right to determine our own future. That is why we are demanding a People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal.”

www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/world/europe/uk-brexit-peoples-vote-march-london.html

and it goes on to describe how isolated the UK has become

"Photos emerging from the talks in Brussels hinted at Britain’s increasing isolation in the talks. One image shared widely on social media showed the leaders of France, Germany and Luxembourg taking a break from negotiations while sitting at a long table where beer, wine and french fries were plentiful — but the British prime minister was noticeably absent."

if

I think it we could have done that (detached from the treaties, particularly the Lisbon Treaty) then we could have been looking at a very different scenario now.

I didn't want to exit, knowing that doing so would create what we have now.

Haven't we already detached ourselves from the several treaties that we signed up to following joining the EU?

I don't think so, Fennel. As far as I am aware we remain a full member until 29th March 2019. It is at that point that the treaties cease to apply and we become a third country.

I voted remain in UK and remain in EU. United we stand.
That seems logical to me Jane10

But is it possible at this stage to Remain, even if there was a majority for it?
Haven't we already detached ourselves from the several treaties that we signed up to following joining the EU?
Or not?

And the people of Scotland didn't vote for the SNP! Much reduced majority last time remember? Have to rely on Greens to get anything through? Not exactly a ringing endorsement. I voted remain in UK and remain in EU. United we stand. Things just hit even scarier with Trump's announcement today. If the arms race with Russia starts again all this brexit stuff could become academic.

Can I point out AGAIN that Scotland didn't vote Tory ,here are the figures for tory votes since 1979,
1979 31%
1983 28%
1987 24%
2016 22%

So for those of you who believe Ruth Davidson is the second coming for the tories you can plainly see she is even LESS popular than Thatcher .
Scotland voted REMAIN ...62% of the votes .
Why are we being dragged out against our will by a party we didn't vote for .Total disregard for the people of Scotland from toxic tories .

It is horrifying isn't it. How can people be so ignorant of history? He must have lived through quite a bit of it too.
Do people really not know that the British Empire does not exist anymore?

sorry seems to have cut out the eegit telling us that there are billions of people in "the Empire" and thats what we need to be the British Empire.

watch this and weep.Empire???

youtu.be/LwUIVnwla5A

Our generation won't see that day MaizieD. Sad isn't it.

P.S I've already agreed with Jane10 on another thread. Brexit is tearing the UK apart; it will take years to recover.

You wouldn't be saying the referendum wasn't democratic "was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won by lies" if the result had been to remain

Of course she wouldn't because the Remain campaign didn't cheat (confirmed by the Electoral Commission), it didn't resort to 'dark' advertising and it wasn't backed by Russian money (Aaron Banks) and Russian bots.

But if Remain had 'won' something might now be being done about the Russian interference and undemocratic actions such as targeted 'dark' advertising instead of it being swept under the carpet.

Spot on Jane10

It's a lose/lose situation all round.

There you go again varian, assuming that "quite a lot of the 26% of the UK population who voted leave were duped because they believed the lies".

If you really believed in democracy you would accept the result. You wouldn't be saying the referendum wasn't democratic "was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won by lies" if the result had been to remain and I don't doubt you'd have been up in arms if that had been the case and you were accused of being duped.

That advisory referendum was not democratic. It was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won by lies.

Quite a lot of the 26% of the UK population who voted leave were duped because they believed the lies.

If you really believe in democracy, support a Peoples' Vote when the terms of brexit are known, with the option of Remaining.

So much talk of the "subversion of democracy" but it's OK to attempt to subvert the result of a democratic referendum on whether or not we remain in the EU. It is that more than anything that I am not comfortable with Mazie

The big difference between the election of Trump and the result of the referendum is that Clinton actually received more votes than Trump but he won more states.

That's irrelevant, smileless. The US has a different voting system from us. The relevant thing is that Russia interfered massively in the process. If you read the indictment you can see how they did it and what a huge amount of money they spent on it. And we know that they were very active in the UK in the run up to the referendum.

We've had discussions on here before about the use of social media and targeted adverts. I'm always surprised that anyone can be comfortable with what is clearly a subversion of democracy.

The Russians have ' been at it ' in several countries elections. I think they were probably ' at it ' during our UK General Elections over recent years.

I think the danger of relying on Facebook and the like , even Forums like Gransnet for your news and information is precarious and it is all wide open to ' trolling' and obviously not only from the Russians

I think some would be very surprised in how our data is collected and used , even by our political parties.

Well Greta that's what happens when you take one small part of a post. It wouldn't necessitate another vote because you cannot prove if or to what extent any Russian interference may have had on the final outcome.

I do believe in democracy which is why I don't agree on another vote but if there is one, I'll vote and accept the result unlike some.

I haven't seen "any British person" state they think it's acceptable "for the Russians to influence our vote" varian. I never take notice of anyone who 'phones me to tell me there's a fault on my computer; I just hang up.

Incredible that any British person should think it is OK for the Russians to influence our votes, and to do it by manipulating both social media and the MSM. I know some Leave voters say they were not influenced by Russian trolls, but how would they know? They'll have used the same sort of British names used by the Asian scammers who phone to tell you there is a fault with your computer.

Even more incredible that some, who thought it was OK to vote Leave beacause they were told by Leave campaigner Daniel Hannan that "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" or they believed Nigel Farage when he assured us we'd be just like Norway or Switzerland, have not, by now discovered that they were lied to and their votes are being referred to as a mandate for something which they did not vote for and certainly do not want.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

Smileless: An investigation into the referendum may well uncover Russian interference but wouldn't necessitate another vote.

You don't believe in democracy then? Putin must be rubbing his hands.