Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

PECS Wrong again

Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK are more likely to see his remarks as calculated and divisive and trying to 'other' groups of people

That is your arrogant and contrived division.

I see immigrants in a positive light and have worked and lived alongside many in my lifetime. I do not see BJ's remarks in the same light. You are accusing many who have no beef with immigration of being racist. I have just posted left wing Polly Toynbee's words, denigrating the reasons behind the wearing of the burka. You'll be telling us she hates immigrants in a minute.

Boris has a point. He made it badly. He started a discussion which has been had all over Europe already, and in many cases it has led to a banning of face-covering. You do not need to be 'on a side' or even have strong views on immigration to be concerned about the identity of the person next to you who is hidden from head to toe in black cloth.

It suits YOUR political agenda PECS, to create 'sides'.

MWBroon, what do you think they look like covered head to toe in black, peering out of a slit? I think it looks threatening,that is my opinion, you don't have to agree, but please don't tell me how I must think.

Could you tell me precisely I told you what to think Luckylegs ?
Yes insults fly around the House of Commons, but should they be published in a reputable broadsheet?
matter of opinion.

PECS
GENERALLY SPEAKING ALERT: Those who are wary of immigration, immigrants and people being 'different' and 'spoiling' the UK will think his remarks are innocent and reflecting the thought of many (like them). Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK are more likely to see his remarks as calculated and divisive and trying to 'other' groups of people.

This is not a 'General Speaking Alert'. This is your somewhat obtuse view.
You cannot generalise about the 'indigenous' population or the recent immigrant population.

Day6
(PECS) He wants to be an active part of the *ruling elite

(You) "Oh dear. Straight from the Socialist worker maybe?"

You mock PECS, but do you truly believe that Boris doesn't aspire to that? To me, it is as plain as the nose on my face!

PECS - I agree with you up to a point.
But another factor comes in - in a small country like ours, with a limited supply of houses schools hospitals doctors nurses police etc there comes a point where we can't absorb any more people.
Italy, being one of the main receiving points of N African immigrants, has already reached that point. Now what's happening there?

MamaCaz
Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

Genuine question here:
Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK
Indeed they have, but could I just ask what role a woman who is constricted by a burka is undertaking to benefit society?
And if it is as a SAHM - then well done - but they too are much denigrated by some.

(PECS) He wants to be an active part of the *ruling elite*
Sorry to those who believe that our politicians rule us - they are our elected servants.

There seems to be a certain mismatch between those who use the term "snowflake" or rail against those being "oversensitive" to Johnson's comments - and their whimpering complaint that certain styles of dress are "threatening". Or indeed that they feel threatened or intimidated by someone wearing a veil. Best not to paint yourself into too small a comfort zone as you get older I think. Where does it end? Staying indoors because you're scared of anyone who is not exactly like you maybe? Being too scared to go to the hospital because one of the doctors might not look and sound exactly like your own family?

Joelsnan

Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

Nothing to do with what the media say. In fact, if we blindly accept things as the media present them, we might as stop 'discussing' politics right now!
My views are based on what I like to think is a realistic consideration of BJ's words and actions over the last few years. He is a politician. Some politicians seek nothing more than to represent their constituents. Others are in politics for what it can do for them. You already know which group I think BJ belongs to, but DO NOT INSULT ME BY SUGGESTING THAT MY VIEWS ARE BASED ON MEDIA HYPE!

"You mock PECS, but do you truly believe that Boris doesn't aspire to that? To me, it is as plain as the nose on my face!"

My point was - he IS part of the ruling elite already. How much more 'elite' can politicians be? He has held cabinet positions.

Most politicians have privilege.. and Boris has already been Mayor of London. He and the rest of them ARE the ruling elite, Corbyn included who has the means to oppose government directly. They ARE the elite whether you like them or not.

(I doubt very much that he'd ever lead the Conservative Party as he is too blunder-prone, but stranger things have happened.)

And yes, Jalima, good point, the electorate give them that power.

I suppose quite simply we expect our politicians to be a bit more circumspect.

Best not to paint yourself into too small a comfort zone as you get older I think.
^ Where does it end? Staying indoors because you're scared of anyone who is not exactly like you maybe?^
^ Being too scared to go to the hospital because one of the doctors might not look and sound exactly like your own family?^

What a pathetic and insulting analogy JessM

There are people from all walks of life (like Angela Merkel for one ) who find a covered face insulting, strange, disturbing. So she is narrow minded and frightened of anything not familiar to her then?

We are a diverse and multicultural nation and most of us have accepted and welcome diversity. The French famously use "Vive la Difference!" yet in France (and other countries) face covering is now against the law.

Diversity is fine by me and most people. Having to address a robed body and veiled face and head where only the eyes show through slits in the cloth is not.

I suppose quite simply we expect our politicians to be a bit more circumspect.
Yes, 'Statesmanlike' - seems to have disappeared these days though, Bridgeit

^ Being too scared to go to the hospital because one of the doctors might not look and sound exactly like your own family?^
That is not a fair comparison at all.
One can see the doctors' facial expressions.

Burkas are not allowed to be worn by hospital staff - not where I live, anyway. It is against the terms and conditions of employment - there needs to be trust between medical staff and patient, and that cannot be built up if a patient cannot see the face of a doctor or nurse, or any medical practitioner.

18.40.37 Day6 good post.
Nobody has posted a ‘racist’ remark on here at all and yet one or two are determined to paint most posters as little Englanders who can’t stand immigrants.Wrong! This thread is about Johnson’s comments and should not spill over into
Criticisms of posters.
It’s not a race situation or even a religious one really, since it’s a cultural attitude only.
It’s not a right wing versus left wing thing either, since those on both sides abhor the burka and veil.
We are a very tolerant society in the UK ( much more so than many European countries) and so far have not banned these costumes, whether we should or not is another matter.

I take your point, Day6. Yes, Boris is already a part of the ruling elite. However, I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that it's pretty clear that he is not content to settle for the position that he currently holds within that elite. He has much grander plans. In itself, there's nothing wrong with that, but it does matter how he goes about gaining that position.

Regarding most politicians having privilege, I am not sure. Does the ordinary backbench politician really have a position of privilege? I don't know enough about the workings of our parliamentary system to be sure, but on the face of it I doubt it.

I cannot understand why, as so many are fervent remainers, EU citizens, they are not railing against Denmark and other countries where these head coverings are now banned.

Instead, people are saving their verbal onslaughts for a rather daft remark by a journalist cum politician.

Is it just me that does not see them as a ruling elite?

They are elected by us to carry out our wishes.

Mamacaz
Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

I do not appreciate capital letters especially when it was a genuine question which asked if your opinion was not based upon the media, then how was your opinion formed.

I have no absolute opinion on BJ. I understand that he did a good job as London Mayor and was respected. I have seen him in the media described as a bafoon. I know he sometimes speaks inappropriately and did mention in another thread that I wondered if he had Aspergers. All i wanted to understand was how people have such strong feelings about BJ and how these were formed, so please do not use capitals again.

Joelsnan

I do not appreciate capital letters especially when it was a genuine question which asked if your opinion was not based upon the media, then how was your opinion formed.

I apologise for the capitals, Joelsnan. I must have read something more to your question than I intended.

Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

Apart from the capitals, my answer is the same:

Nothing to do with what the media say. In fact, if we blindly accept things as the media present them, we might as stop 'discussing' politics right now!
My views are based on what I like to think is a realistic consideration of BJ's words and actions over the last few years. He is a politician. Some politicians seek nothing more than to represent their constituents. Others are in politics for what it can do for them. You already know which group I think BJ belongs to.

... than you intended, that should have said.

joelsnan Johnson likes to play the buffoon but he is highly intelligent, highly educated, articulate and writes entertainingly and with great flair.
However, he is playing a game. The tousled shock of hair?
He “tousles” it before the cameras are turned on (I have that from someone who worked with him), he is absolutely ruthless and unforgiving of opponents (same source), totally egocentric and ambitious.
So don’t be fooled.
Agree with him if you want, but just as he turned his coat over the referendum, be prepared to find him saying one today and the opposite tomorrow if he feels it will advance his political career.

Saying “one thing today “....

I once saw him tousle his hair just before an interview in the street (Henley.)