Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

I have an Iranian neighbour, very western in her dress and way of life, who goes back to Iran from time to time to see extended family and has of course to comply with the enforced headscarf much to her disgust. I wonder how any of us would feel if we were told we had to cover our head when we were out and about, let alone cover every part of our body, bar our eyes, by our male relatives and the wider male population, or risk being arrested and beaten. What must that feel like to have every aspect of your life even down to mode of dress controlled by men

Terribul British values are also on the curriculum in the UK & have to be promoted in schools and nurseries. www.nurseryresources.org/post/Teaching-British-Values-for-EYFS

Terribul I don't think that every woman who wears the hijab, burkha or niqab is forced to wear it, either by religious or family pressures. Some women have stated that they wear it because they want to; it's their choice in many cases.

From the Letters column in today’s Telegraph

SIR – On a bus in Tehran, I got into conversation with a young woman wearing a burka and asked whether she did so because she was very religious, or as a political statement. She said: “It’s neither. In your family, do you go home for Christmas with your parents?” I said I did, always. “Wearing the burka for me is the same. You go home for Christmas; in our family we wear a burka as it’s our family tradition. “
Fair comment?

Not sure about that, Maw. It's a family tradition in their country. When we go home for Christmas most of us drink alcohol. It's our tradition in our country. If we got caught doing that in a muslim country??

Is it fair to justify something because it's a family tradition?

Totally fair Maw, no issues with that at all; her choice to dress however she wishes. It only comes unstuck, imo, when the custom and culture of the country you are in reveals it face to others when interacting. But even then, it opens up another issue as to whether they should have to remove their face covering when in banks, airports etc, as motorcyclists, kids with hoodies etc do.

Perhaps these women have been told/threatened by their men folk to say that they're wearing the hijab of their own free will!!!? There's a thought!

Yes. Tradition and family rules (maybe or maybe not set by men) run hand in hand I would have thought.

Then if the burka or niqab isn't being worn out of choice, but because husbands or male family members insist on it; is it that Muslim men are saying that all men are unable to conduct themselves properly towards women? This is an offensive implication that all men are sexual predators, surely?

Traditionally males and females in certain cultures/religions are circumcised. Does the fact that it is traditional automatically make it right? I'm not sure that tradition is necessarily the most compelling argument.

Absolutely! icanhand ??

For the sake of the women themselves and realising their ambitions and full potential, it could be the best option to do as many European countries are doing and banning this costume?

Circumcision is child abuse, male or female. I am sad that our government still allows this. This was the sort of thing I was talking about upthread when I said that the trend of falling over backwards to avoid giving religious offence is a matter for concern.

Chewbacca - there is a theme within many religions that sees woman as temptress (Eve being a prime example); and I too deprecate the fact that this implies that men have no control over their desires.

Being so liberal and allowing it to ( possibly) proliferate may be doing a disservice to women from other cultures living here, allowing, with a nod and a wink, men who run those households to stop women from doing anything outside the house other than shopping.

I agree with Juggernaut, one rule for some but not others.
Bluebell you can't go through life afraid to say or challenge others incase it might upset them, sometime you have to say it how it is.

Back in the early 70s our friends travelled from New Zealand to the UK across Asia. They told us they had seen women in burkas walking a few paces behind their menfolk in one country-I think Afghanistan. They said it was like being in medieval times, we had never seen a woman in a burka. We all felt sorry for these women, how times change.

Being so liberal and allowing it to ( possibly) proliferate may be doing a disservice to women from other cultures living here, allowing, with a nod and a wink, men who run those households to stop women from doing anything outside the house other than shopping.

But isn't it ironic to have rich, white men such as Boris telling Muslim women how to dress? The argument that it is "is their interests" seems very paternalistic and patronising.

I hate all this blatant intolerence that is creeping into our society often promoted by extremists within our media, who are successfully brainwashing us with their perverted propaganda.

The equalities watchdog has now branded Boris Johnson’s comments on the burqa “inflammatory and divisive”.
The Equality and Human Rights Commission said it had received complaints from members of the public about Johnson’s controversial article in the Daily Telegraph. The body’s chief executive, said: “Boris Johnson’s use of language in this instance, is inflammatory and divisive. Political figures should lead by example, conducting debates in a responsible manner, and language such as this can inhibit legitimate dialogue.”

Boris has his own agenda and as he is rather astute, he knows he is adding to the intolerance facing our Nation, I detest his purpose and reasons for making such hurtful comments for so many members of our open society.

But isn't it ironic to have rich, white men such as Boris telling Muslim women how to dress?
But he didn't!
He said this should not be banned in this country as it has been in Denmark.

Save your feelings of irony for Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Austria, Bulgaria, Switzerland, parts of Italy, Barcelona, Quebec and certain African countries.

You can do what you like in this life. In Boris's case he can say what he likes but must take the flak.
In the case of women who wear burkas and niqabs they can wear them but be aware that they are alienating to other people living here in the UK and against Islamic laws and national laws in other countries including Islamic countries. Their choice.

I wonder how burqa wearing muslims in lands where it's banned cope? Do they have to stay indoors (as I would if we had enforced nudism!) or do they learn to go out in just a scarf? And once used to it, do they relish the new-found freedom?

starbox I would guess that many are no longer allowed out. which is the only reason I would hesitate to ban it.

How would you account for all the women out and about in the streets in Muslim countries eg Bangladesh? Those not allowed out would be as much members of small fundamentalist sects as they are here.
I had a lovely time photographing a beautiful group of young girls out in a cafe in Dhaka. With their colourful saris and gorgeous flowing black hair and eyelashes they were like a flock of glamorous birds. They photographed me too obviously as a terrible warning of what not to look like! Seriously, they were very down on what they referred to as 'those women who cover up'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

Double standards or racism ?

Double standards.