Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

Those who, like me, see some parallels between Boris's action and Trump's, might like to read this:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/adolf-hitler-donald-trump-mein-kampf-bluffed-way-to-power-nazi-leader-germany-fuhrer-us-president-a7568506.html

There are some very pertinent observations re Hitler and Trump that could just as easily be applied to Boris:

“Hitler used the tactics of bluff masterfully, at times giving the impression of being a feckless Chaplinesque clown, at other times a sleeping serpent, at others yet a trustworthy statesman," Mr Rosenbaum said.

"The Weimar establishment didn’t know what to do, so they pretended this was normal. They 'normalised' him.”

“Hitler’s method was to lie until he got what he wanted, by which point it was too late," Mr Rosenbaum said, adding there is no comparison between Hitler and Mr Trump in terms of scale. But, he said, it was important to see that, like Hitler, Mr Trump is "defining mendacity down" by normalising lies and lowering expectations of truthfulness.

The author continued with a caution: "Trump’s outrageous conduct and shamelessly lying mouth seemed so ridiculous we wouldn’t have to take him seriously. Until we did.”

Citing a conversation with Hitler biographer Alan Bullock, Mr Rosenbaum suggested the Nazi might not even have believed in his own anti-Semitism, and could have "just used the Jew-hatred to advance his cause with the nitwit thug segment of the German people".

Mr Rosenbaum continued: “He saw that this tactic of playing the fool, the Chaplinesque clown, had worked over and over again, worked like a charm. It kept the West off balance. They consistently underestimated him and were divided over his plans”

I am all for tolerance; but we have to have some standards which guide our behaviour in order for society to function; and the corollary to that is that we have to have some lines that we draw as to what is and is not acceptable. If we hold dear the principle that babies should not be mutilated, then that should be a line. If we hold dear the principle that women should be treated as equals, then that is another line etc.

Tolerance is wonderful - but not at any cost.

We have become too frightened to criticise those actions that are not acceptable, for fear of giving offence. That is a dangerous situation to be in. Anyone and everyone can claim that the are being discriminated against and there are no lines drawn anywhere.

I know it is hard and there are nuances in where the lines should be drawn; but some societies have not been afraid to say that women's equality and their needs and have banned those things which are not acceptable to their society. These are not intolerant societies, but ones that recognise that tolerance cannot be entirely open-ended.

their needs matter - that's what it was meant to say!

Another point (not sure if it has been mentioned) is that many of us could make remarks like this, as private citizens. But when it's made by an influential politician it has many more repercussions.
As usual I'm sitting on the fence with this one.

I should have added 'in public' by an influential etc.

If Boris hadn’t said it we wouldn’t be talking about it, by ‘we’ I mean the media and the people

Oh dear Annie that’s the second time I find I agree with you! What’s happening? ?

I agree it would not be so ubiquitous - but it is certainly a discussion that has been had in our family. My brother lives in a place where the burka is prevalent and these subjugated women walk behind their husbands or other menfolk. He gets very cross about it!

Johnson (and Trump too for that matter) have made it easier for people to be openly racist.
PS Many of the niqab wearing women are British

If a comment about women in burkas or niqabs looking like letter-boxes or bank robbers had been made in public by, say, a head teacher or police commissioner they would undoubtedly have faced disciplinary action. That’s the double standard that I dislike.
It was a very rude thing to write. That fact should stand on its own and Boris Johnson is rightly being held to account over it.

PS Many of the niqab wearing women are British

I don't think it's the nationality of the person wearing the burka or niqab that's causing the furore. It's the garment itself which so many are unhappy to see.

And speaking about it is not being racist Hm999

Indeed annie.

Yes, winterwhite, it is very rude.
But it is not racist.

Sigh

It was not I who said it was racist, and I don’t think it was. But it was gratuitously offensive and pejorative, and that is enough.

It's not even rude. If I comment (as so many do) that fat women in boob tubes look a sight, that tattoos look chavvy etc, then there's no outcry. Actually the burqa debate is much MORE OK than the former as it's not just haranguing people's taste but has issues of security and female disempowerment (SOME are wearing it because they're made to.) But we live in a 2 tiered society- the sacrosant groups who we criticise at our peril (LBGT! muslim! disabled!) v those who are fair game (take the mickey all you want out of the pope, the queen, Boris ("stuck-up white toff - deserves all he gets!"). Democracy means we can state the facts - however unpalatable-about ANYONE (and they can absolutely respond in kind!)

Can I point out that many of those who are saying it was "rude" to make a comment about those wearing the burqua do not complain when someone makes comments about what Theresa May, Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees-Mogg wear (and in some cases even what JRMs children wear). Following the logic that Johnsons comments could lead to attacks on women wearing a veil could also be applied to the comments about Rees-Mogg leading to the attack on his home.

I have said before I have no objection to the chador, if a woman chooses to wear it. In our society we "read" people by their facial expressions - the veil prevents this and also is a barrier to integration.

JRM’s turnout is immaculate. Boris needs a good brush and an honest tailor who makes him properly fitting trousers. Remembering to actually fasten them would also be a good idea.

Generally I think TM dresses very well although she is looking understandably tired lately.

Definitely trousers - those white hairless legs in the picture are a sight not to behold!

"Johnson (and Trump too for that matter) have made it easier for people to be openly racist."

If you are racist, you are racist. You need no excuse. Most people are not racist and it is NOT racist to question weather face-covering is acceptable in British society.

I don't like Trump or Johnson, but they are both outspoken and controversial. They are most certainly NOT politically aware or correct. What they have been able to do is open discussion about things which concern people. They cut the crap and go straight to the heart of the matter, whether they tread on toes or not and whether you agree with them or not.

Some might say it's quite refreshing to be able to broach subjects which other politicians swerve, or sweep under the carpet.

It concerned the French so much they banned that form of dress and there is a huge Muslim population in France. As others have mentioned, face covering is a topic of conversation that has already been had (and been acted on) in many enlightened European countries.

We don't need far left anything-goes liberalism or far right intolerance: what we do need is the ability to be able to speak up about problems which face a tolerant and multicultural society like ours without fear of being branded racist or bigoted.

Boris is a buffoon but I am of the opinion that we do need politicians who are unafraid to confront and give voice to issues which if left to fester become ugly and cause resentment. That's not the way to build a fair society.

Talking is always a good way forward imo, and topics which are fairly controversial, (like people walking amongst us in a head-to-toe disguise, which is not a religious requirement) should not be ignored.

Well said, Day6 ! I don't regard myself as racist- DIL is Filipino, we have great Indian friends. BUT I absolutely think we need limits on immigration; and need to call out ethnic minorities whose actions don't fit our society.

Yes, Day6 - well said - although I do wonder about the wisdom of our complete acceptance and encouragement of "multiculturalism" even when it conflicted with our values - I'm thinking mainly of the attitudes of some cultures to women - when cultures clashed the rights of women were sacrificed in the name of multicultural sensitivity - and hence Rotherham, Rochdale etc etc etc.
Like you I'm no fan of Donald & Boris but it is amusing to see that when they state the "bleeding obvious" a furore erupts from the chattering classes - such as when Donald said it was time for Germany to pull their weight and pay their fair share into NATO and not expect the US to carry the major load - shock, horror - he'd actually voiced what a lot of people had been thinking.
Similarly with Boris and the burqa - and it's ridiculous to call his comments racist - they've been endorsed by leading Imams who support him.

Day6 - dbDB77

Well exactly!

“I wouldn’t want my four year old looked after by somebody wearing a burka. I wouldn’t want my elderly mum looked after by somebody wearing a burka. They need to be able to show their face. I wouldn’t mind if they worked in records in the hospital.”
Emily Thornberry. Question Time 2013.

I don't recall any outcry when she said this.