Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

OldMeg, make a cuppa, loved your post about speaking Welsh ?

Iamnotarobot
Islamophobia is based upon an unfounded hostility towards Islam
I do not uphold this claim.
The majority of muslims are very moderate in their faith however there is one overarching thing which binds them into a worldwide brotherhood which supercedes any loyalty to their country of residence and that is their collective faith which is started with the first prayer whispered in their ear at birth, the indoctrination continuing through life. Those who have lived and worked in a mainly muslim country will be aware of how everthing revolves around conforming to the faith. The calls to prayer where five times a day conformity is reinforced. It is interesting to see the anxiety levels rise in those caught in meetings when the call to prayer is made. Meeting having to be suspended while the prayer is done.
One only has to see how muslims worldwide come together when any offence is perceived i.e. Lurpak, and because of the worlwide fellowship and the rise in radicalisation there is an uneasyness of any indication of the growth and spread. of these hard line ideologies and culturally appropriating the burka and the male pyjama and beards to demonstrate that they buy into these ideologies obviously raises concerns.

Unfortunately, not all Islamophobia is completely without basis. The BBC news did a report about the imam of the Didsbury Mosque where the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi attended, and the conclusion was that he had quite likely been radicalised there with a call to "armed Jihad". I remember seeing an undercover "Dispatches" programme a few years ago where a reporter covertly filmed similar, in fact worse with incitement to kill "Kuffars" throw homosexuals off mountains, it was nothing more than hate filled bile with incitement to murder. The sermon at the Didsbury Mosque was played back to one Islamic scholar who was of the opinion that he was "psychologically and practically brainwashing" young people. Let's not forget how many innocent people, including children were killed and injured in the Manchester Arena.

Whilst I presume that the majority of mosques don't incite hatred and violence against other religions. However, if that sort of sermon was coming from a church pulpit how long would that be tolerated? Clearly this type of negativity alarms the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't perceive there to be the same sort of prejudice and hate, as undoubtedly there is, aimed at say Hindus.

Whilst one must accept there is a degree of Islamophobia one should also accept that undoubtedly some of this is fueled by the negative news that involves Muslims, such as the historical and seemingly ongoing "girl grooming" that is so often in the news.

Please don't interpret my post as saying I think abuses and verbal assaults against them are justified. I'm merely pointing out that if posters whilst listing the prejudice and racism that encompasses Islamophobia, should also acknowledge that a small section of Muslims have behaved very badly in the countries where they live but profess to hate.

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What has Lurpak got to do with it, Joelsnan?
What have I missed?

The list of perceived ways that Islamaphobia can be demonstrated is quite interesting because it seems that this isn't just a one way street:

 name-calling; like calling non muslims kafir, perhaps?
 cultural or religious insensitivity; like Muslims reported antisemitism perhaps?
 verbal assault; "Angela Merkel also made headlines when, in an interview with Channel 10 television this week, she admitted for the first time that the recent wave of migrants to Germany has brought a different type of anti-Semitism than the type found in Berlin in the 1930s, and that the source of this new type of anti-Semitism was “refugees or people of Arab origin.” Like this perhaps?
 graffiti; like the anti Christian graffiti that was sprayed on the wall of a church in Jerusalem perhaps?
 intimidation; like having the general public fearful of going to busy places perhaps?
 exclusion; like not involving yourself in your neighbourhood, except with people of your own beliefs, perhaps?
 discrimination; this goes in both directions perhaps?
 physical assault. perhaps this has been very well covered in past, and recent, events?

The "othering" isn't just a one way street against Islam and it's followers is it?

Chewbacca you are, of course, right in that racism comes from all quarters, yet if you are white and Christian you are assumed to be immune from racist comments.

How about the time I was stopped in a supermarket and told the small crucifix I wear was offensive - this from a woman wearing a chador who said if I wanted to wear it I should hide it beneath my clothes, or the time I was walking through a predominantly immigrant area and was shouted at and told I didn't belong there and that my "face didn't fit"

I dislike discrimination of any kind but surely that should extend to all races and religions, including white Christians

Mawbroon
The Danish cartoon issue became known as the 'Lurpak' issue because apart from all of the outrage, riots and damage done worldwide, most muslim countries banned the sale of Lurpak.

I am pretty sure Farage, who complained bitterly about being surrounded by foreign speaking people on the train - does not speak French or German when in Brussels.

As for many parts of the EU, where there are large groups of British residents, like the Costas or the Dordogne(shire) ... massive areas have become more or less English only. There are vans travelling back and forth every week to deliver food to the Dordogne ordered on-line from Tescos too.

They have their own Churches too.

Thank you Joelsnan that had passed me by (did wonder if it was a result of autocorrect! )

I don't think anyone is complaining about anyone not "speaking our language" though are they? The main problem, which is what this thread is about, seems to be about the wearing of a garment that inhibits social interaction between people.

Do the Brits living in Dordogneshire and the Costas create cultural, social and religious divisions with their Tesco delivery trucks? And who listens to, or believes, a single word that Farage says these days?

They have their own Churches too

Shocking! (Not the going to church , but failure toseek out a Protestant church in their village)
When DH lived in Paris the family went to the Embassy church.
Catholics of course went to Mass in a French church.

Interestingly Rachel Johnson has apologised for her brother, saying he didn't go far enough, as she would ban the wearing of the burka here.

She mentioned several reasons why, which have already been covered on this thread.

Sunday lunch at the Johnson family home anyone?!!

Perhaps they want to take communion, jura, which a Protestant cannot do in a RC church.

lots and lots of comments about BJs comments but not one about the very dangerous sermon that the immam of Didsbury mosque gave, where in the congregation that day was the killer of 22 innocent people at Manchester Arena.

jalima, good point. I live in a part of the world which is strongly Reformed- and there are lots of Churches for expats too, btw.

Chewbacca 'Do the Brits living in Dordogneshire and the Costas create cultural, social and religious divisions with their Tesco delivery trucks?'

cultural and social for sure. When you live in an area which has been taken over by very large numbers of people who speak another language and make little effort to learn (I know there are notable exception- OH being one) - and cafés, restaurants, shops, markets, etc, provide more for the newcomers than for the locals, the language spoken is foreign... and even worse, the food, building materials, white goods and labour- arrives in white vans with foreing people working for cheaper rates and paying no taxes- yes it does create real frictions and more. As for clothing- I am sure many locals would prefer modest dress rather than shorts and string vests with overhanging bellies and moobs ;- even BoJo looks well turned out in comparison. LOL.

Many of the local grocers and artisans suffer greatly from the white vans deliveries- many have had to close or cut down prices massively to just keep above water.

Totally agree petra- for another thread perhaps?

Re above, the point being that many British people complain about the lack of integration os some groups- and then go on to do exactly the same elsewhere - which is hypocritical in the extreme.

I am with Rachel Johnson- ban the burka and chador, and be totally tolerant about modest dress, including long clothing, long sleeves, high necks and scarves- as long as not covering the face and prohibiting communication with others. Clear - simple.

And as in parts of EU, do not allow ritual slaughter, kosher or halal- without pre electrical stunning- which does NOT go against the Koran, as the animal is alive, even is electrically stunned.

I don't think it wrong to question why certain things reoccur in some demographics, or religions for that matter. My mother an avid Catholic found it hard to come to terms with the historical level of abuse in the church, a church that meant so much to her. Abuse conducted so covertly that she and others like her would never have known it existed. Nevertheless, exist it does when we read of late that there were 300 priests involved in sexual abuse in Pennsylvania alone That's a hell of a lot for one state!

Similarly when the numerous cases come to light, of sexual grooming, mainly carried out by one ethnicity again and again, like the abuses by priests, it's not unnatural to think is this ever going to end, and is it still going on? It's not unreasonable to contemplate that when such abuses occur on an industrial scale, possibly there is something wrong with the culture that the abusers are immersed in. Whether it's trying to sweep wrong doings under the carpet as has been the way of the Catholic church or denying the grooming of young women, children even, by gangs is criminal and only highlights the deep injustice metered out to those victims who suffer twice. Not unnaturally, people really, really hate cover ups in the name of political correctness and this will be a factor used against certain communities, in spite of all those brave Muslims who have the guts to condemn the abuse.

Similarly, when there is an atrocious terrorist campaign that kills and maims umpteen, I think people get sick of the likes of Cameron (in particular) and their meaningless never ending platitudes along the lines of "this is nothing to do with Islam" when clearly it is, or indeed a version of it. It's tantamount to saying The Inquisition was nothing to do with Catholicism.

When discussing Islamophobia which exists throughout Europe, it's nonsensical to omit some of the mitigating factors that play into that. I think it occurs to a lot us, when we read how random some of the worst atrocities are, that could be us, or our nearest and dearest and no we can't all stand together, another platitude, if we are blown of the face of the earth by some of our fellow citizens !

The French village of Eymet ( nicknamed 'little England')
Has a different view.
Phillip Barb, a cheese maker in the village said: ^ if the English expats leave, we're screwed^

jura said "When you live in an area which has been taken over by very large numbers of people who speak another language and make little effort to learn (I know there are notable exception- OH being one) - and cafés, restaurants, shops, markets, etc, provide more for the newcomers than for the locals, the language spoken is foreign..."

Isn't this exactly what is happening in some areas of the UK yet if people mention it they are called racist

You're not wrong Oldwoman70.

In the UK, the people doing the taking over often come from the colonies. ESOL classes are cut right back, so fewer opportunities to learn.

Good point Oldwoman

There are vans travelling back and forth every week to deliver food to the Dordogne ordered on-line from Tescos too.
Do they not have supermarkets in France? Why would anyone do that - half the fun of being in another country is shopping locally!