Corbyn / BBC declare social class of employees?

trisher, I went to 3 different primary schools, in various parts of East London. My way out of poverty was passing my 11+ and going to grammar School.

I am all for Grammar Schools.

Children whose parents pay for extra tuition are far more likely to gain a place in grammer school

Doversole I challenge your statement. Please provide evidence of this,

Trisher you had free access to healthcare, education, and the opportunity to progress in life

I was born in 1949. When I was at school, everyone sat the 11+ and a minority progressed to grammar school. The majority went to secondary modern schools, their academic education effectively over.
Of those who did go to grammar schools, a small proportion went on to higher education.

Are you really telling me that young people today have fewer opportunities than the majority did in the 50’s and 60’s?

Oops, misread your post. Apologies!

In part I agree with you Annie, I had no private tuition. Some parents will help their children themselves, some may pay for extra tuition, why should they not have the chance that those before them had?

Unfortunately as has been stated previously, life is not a level playing field, never has been and never will be. We all have a responsibility to do the best we can with whatever cards we have been dealt. Reality is harsh and I cannot see a solution coming from any of our current politicians whatever party.

I am just fearful of 'big brother' knowing all, and what will be done with this information.

There is increasing concern that senior positions in both the public and private sector are dominated by privately educated people, despite the fact that they only represent around 7% of the population.

Some extracts from a BBC News report of February 2016:

"Leading British actors are more than twice as likely as stars in the music industry to have attended fee-paying schools, the Sutton Trust says.

"The Sutton Trust suggested the successful state-funded BRIT school in Croydon, which counts Adele and Jessie J among its former pupils, may be one reason why the proportion of state-educated top music stars is higher.

"It also says professions like politics and the law continue to be dominated by privately educated Oxbridge graduates.

"Researchers for the Trust looked at the educational backgrounds of more than 1,200 people, working in high positions in medicine, the law, the military, journalism, politics, the civil service, business, film and pop music.

""The Trust said a child's chances of reaching the top still came down to their schooling and contacts.

"The government said the state sector was increasingly matching the private sector in terms of academic attainment."

The Mail Online reported in 2014:

"A major new study found that two thirds of state school pupils who achieved Bs and Cs at A-level went on to gain first or upper second class degrees - compared with just half of their private school peers."

It would therefore appear that the predominance of privately educated people in highly paid positions in the public and private sector is, as the Trust stated, down to a perceived notion that their schooling automatically makes them more suitable candidates for senior jobs, and to the networks of contacts that their private education provides access to.

is it right that virtually all our public bodies and commercial organisations are dominated by people from such a narrow milieu and shouldn't steps be taken to address this so that all of those who have the ability have the opportunity to achieve high office?

GG13 for what it's worth I went to 2 primary schools in working class areas I too passed my 11 plus and went to Grammar school, but I became increasingly aware as I grew older of people with great ability who for one reason or another had not had the same education as me. Many of them acheived in later life by taking other routes for education. And I realised that the system that had benefitted me had done nothing for them. Their route had been longer and harder. I then realised a system was needed which gave every child the opportunity to access education and not to be branded a failure at 11, a comprehensive system.

janeainsworth you probably don't remember but you would have had frequent health checks as a child, you would have been given orange juice as a baby and free milk at school. If your parents were not working you would have had a free meal at school even during the holidays. At secondary level there were grants to help with uniform and books. In other words your physical health (very important to your ability to learn) was well cared for. Even if you attended a sec mod you could access education for free in later life if you chose to do so.
There has been a steady reduction in all of these things in the past few years.

Whether or not the likes of Kinnock and Benn traded on their parents reputation that is ' nepotism' but that is nothing to do with Social Class.

Nepotism is not the domain of any class.

A genuine question albeit hypothetical.

If Tony Benn who came from a highly privileged background had produced a BBC documentary why would his Social Class need to be known? What reason other than possible bigotry does a persons Social Class have any bearing on the matter?

What lies behind having to declare your Social Status to so called be ' transparent' .

If it is for the purpose of 'Inclusion' then I'm sorry this is the road to ' Exclusion ' and who will be the judge and jury, politicians ?

trisher you calling GNers ( that you don’t agree with )
‘Old farts’ is quite ridiculous..... you are an old fart yourself I believe?
Have got used to you claiming to be the only one on here with a conscience ( drive smug eh?)

Eloethan said
There is increasing concern that senior positions in both the public and private sector are dominated by privately educated people, despite the fact that they only represent around 7% of the population.

Exactly! That’s just what Corbyn’s plan is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities. During their school and university career, these more privileged children will make important new contacts in the “old boys’ network”. Their family and friends’ network will help them into the best internships and more lucrative jobs.

Grammar schools used to help bright working class children, but the system is now being manipulated by the “sharp elbowed” middle classes, just because they can.

I was a grammar school girl myself, but feel that an excellent education should be available to every child, not just those with parents who can tutor or who can pay for tuition.

Health checks and free education are still here btw.
Uni grants had to go a long time ago, as more and more students went on to higher education.

trisher I remember all that very well, but you have not answered my question.
I am not denying there is shameful deprivation in our society today.

But a much higher proportion of young people today benefit from higher education than they did in the 50s and 60s.

Will the Newspapers be next?

Will the Guardian, The Daily Mail , have to declare the Social Class of it's employees, journalists?

If not why not?

What lies behind wanting to know.?

What or who is going to be deemed from the right or wrong Social Class and what will be done about it.?

Would for example Polly Toynbee be ' out ' because of her Social Class and replaced by Kevin Maquire because he would be classed as ' in ' fitting the criteria of Corbyns Class warfare.?

you would have been given orange juice as a baby and free milk at school.
That was because there was a lack of food due to rationing after WW2 trisher. We also had cod liver oil.

The milk was disgusting in the summer months - it's a wonder we were not ill with the lack of refrigeration.

mostly harmless / Eloethan

" Eloethan said

There is increasing concern that senior positions in both the public and private sector are dominated by privately educated people, despite the fact that they only represent around 7% of the population.

Exactly! That's what Corbyn is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities. "

If you practice what you preach what would you have done with them?

Does your concern about somebody's Social Class go across the board or just the BBC?

What problem would you have with for example David Attenborough or Tony Benn creating a documentary for the BBC. ? After all they would be two candidates that you appear to take issue with along with Corbyn and presumably the Labour Party.

Perhaps they do JA but the qualifications required for most professional jobs have increased accordingly. You will find few lecturers now with less than a Masters Degree and most have or are working towards a PhD. At the same time the provision for children from poor backgrounds has been cut and we know that poor nutrition in childhood leads to poor academic performance so in a few years time the gap between those children and their better off counterparts will be significantly wider.
Actually lemon the health checks aren't there. When I was at school you were checked at 5, 10 and 15. You were also checked if you chose to work with children. There is no school doctor now and no school clinics. When I was first teaching in a deprived area I could send children to a nearby clinic to have minor wounds dressed. They were also treated there for scabies and impetigo. The care given to children who were neglected was much bettter than it is now.

When I was at school, everyone sat the 11+ and a minority progressed to grammar school. The majority went to secondary modern schools, their academic education effectively over

Perhaps the town where I lived was an exception to that because many of my friends went on to the secondary modern school and did extremely well there and went on to FE or to train for very good jobs afterwards. They did have a stream which took GCEs.
The high school, on the other hand, spent a great deal of time drumming into the 'gels' just how stupid they were.

We did have secondary education segregated by sex - perhaps that was a plus for the education of girls.

Exactly! That's what Corbyn is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities.
Corbyn, of course, is the exception which proves the rule.

You are currently asked questions about your ethnicity, and your gender and actually you fill in your education on any applicatiion form so it is simply a case of using the information already known.

However, you are not at present asked questions about your parentage.

So what to do about those who attended Grammar Schools?

What to do about those who attended private schools?

What to do with those who went to top universities?

Will the Labour Party throw out anybody who attended the above in the party , employed by Labour or are in the Shadow Cabinet or Labour MP's?

Or is it not an issue when it comes to left wing politics / policies, just for others.

What does this bigotry say to a generation of youngsters working hard in whatever type of school they attend? Don't aim to go to a top University because you will be deemed as perversely unworthy of employment , you will be seen as some sort of Social Class that must be avoided for the purpose of the Socialist political dogma that Class is to be what? Eradicated.

We will see the burning of books next.

Oxbridge universities now have to monitor the background of students they accept onto courses.
Perhaps the BBC should do the same and the civil service and other public bodies. It might mean that in future more allowance is made for the more difficult circumstances of some candidates for example a slightly lower grade could be required for comprehensive school applicants.
It’s would only be a monitoring exercise. We have data collected about us all the time.
I realise that for us grans social-economic background and social class seems a bit irrelevant, but for youngsters it’s an important influence on their life chances.

POGS Crumbs! I have a feeling it is to do with people who come from monied parents having better education, better paid jobs and getting into more influential roles. Conversely, the people coming from humbler backgrounds who don't get the chance for the better education and don't get into the higher roles in the same proportion, are not represented in the influential roles. I hope I've not made that too muddled.

While I'm at it - Grammar schools will only give a better education and better life-chances to a small proportion of children who will grow up to be leaders in their work. Wealthy people will get tuition for their kids to pass the 11+, I've seen it (lived and taught in Kent), or even send child to private crammer before taking 11+. How many ordinary parents will be able to do that? Good comprehensives give respect to everybody and should give the same high educational/academic achievement. It is possible. I have seen it. I have no personal axe to grind. I simply do not want a nation where 90% of people start saying "I failed, I'm not clever, I didn't get to a grammar school" and 90% of our children thinking they are now on the second-best pile and give up their aspirations, identifying themselves as not people who become successful or go to university etc.

How is class measured? It isn't whether you use silver tongues for the sugar cubes in your tea any more. It has to do with level of education, work you do, income bracket, the rest I've forgotten and anyway it's probably different now. It's been used in a lot of health research to useful effect for targeting needs for healthcare.