The Last Days of Mrs May?

Smileless2012, Britain wishes to retain the free movement of capital, services and goods on leaving the European Union but not the free movement of people.

However, the above make up the four freedoms which are at the core of the European Union being. In that any country wishing trade within the EU must accept all four freedoms or none at all will be offered under the rules of the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties.

Therefore, Smileless2012, could you please explain how the EU are supposed to "negotiate" allowing Britain to have a trade agreement on leaving with only three of the core four freedoms without "ripping up" the above treaties?

Britain wishes to come to an agreement whereby the movement of capital, services and goods can continue with as little disruption as possible, for the benefit of Britain and the EU.

As I suspected when I responded to your previous post, no one as suggested that the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties be ripped up.

Tusk has said today that sections of the Chequers agreement need to be re worked. Typical of the EU though, is that they once again haven't come up with any alternatives.

IMO if Northern Ireland wants to remain a part of the EU and the EU wants them to remain, the EU needs to work with TM to find a solution to the border problem.

Smileless2012, again with every respect, how can the EU allow Britain to obtain a trade agreement with only the free movement of goods, services and capital but not the free movement of people without "ripping up" the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties to accommodate that?

smileless2012, The alternative the EU are offering is a Norway deal where associate membership is regulated by EEA ( EU by any other name) Norway have their own Fisheries and Farming policies and some other differences. They pay a great deal into the EU for this independance
Norway is not a major industrial economy, quite different to the UK so they can afford that, although it is the highest taxed country in Europe.

The EU is a club with rules and all members have to obey them, the U.K is asking to have them changed giving it special advantages, obviously the EU is refusing that. Imagine Arsenal Football club wanting to play the game by different rules that suited them better, they would go to the FA and argue their case. If all the other clubs wanted to stay the same Arsenal would either have to concede, or go and play in another league.

The principles are exactly the same either accept the majority or go and play a different game.

I don't foresee any deal being approved by parliament for 2 reasons.
Paying for EEA membership and EU regulation.
Having a soft border of some kind in Ireland.

If there is "No Deal" there WILL be a hard border in Ireland and we now realise just how far reaching Brexit changes will be. So what happens when parliament rejects the deal.
Either
Brexit happens, we set in motion leave with no deal
Or
A second referendum
Or
Parliament as a whole decides to ignore the referendum and remain without a second one - they have the power to do that, just like they have the power to declare war.

Theresa May does not matter she will not have a majority to do anything.

Can I point out that the Chequers proposal was just that. Not a deal or an agreement

Well, Theresa May has most certainly had a very bad day today (20/09/18)

Whatever could go wrong did go wrong. For once she does have my very genuine sympathy for it seems she now has no supporters anywhere.

I feel she may resign over the weekend but I hope I am wrong.

She has my sympathy too, but it's hard to see what a change of leader will achieve, the EU are not rejecting the deal but very close.
Her problem is that giving way on the Ireland border risks loosing Unionist support, then she is sunk. Given that a politicians prime objective is to stay in power risking a general election is not welcome, so they soldier on.
If the EU do not move, the Tories, whoever leads them in October might go to Parliament with a no deal recommendation, what happens then, to avoid a hard border the Unionists change sides, ( NI did vote solidly remain).

Is leave then a realistic option?. (have the EU calculated that)

T M is in an impossible situation. She has my sympathies.

She has my sympathy and admiration

I feel the greatest risk would be that whoever leads this government they finally arrive back in parliament with only a "no deal" option to put forward to the House of Commons

Parliament then rejects that "no deal" and political chaos then ensues.

I feel Briton is very much on the edge now.

and still the 62% of voting Scots who wanted to remaina re totally ignored while Westminster makes plans to dismantle our government powers ...all 17% of them in Holyrood.They may well find we declare UDI in the enar future.The Independence movement is PEOPLE led with the SNP as our voice BUT if we have to move before Ms Sturgeon is prepared to we will.The peopel of Scotland are sovereign NOT the parliament or the queen .

Britain is on the edge no doubt about that and it seems that a deal is unlikely, that will concentrate political minds.

To crash out with no deal and face years of acrimonious negotiations to an unknown future is now a reality, will parliament really do that. Or will they take the sensible option and cancel Brexit.

It's the party conferences in the next few weeks so negotiations will go quiet I'm sure, after that all bets are off. I wonder what Corbyn will do to stir the pot.

May has been humiliated again. No surprise- she was told her Chequers plan wouldn’t be acceptable. No doubt her supporters will blame the EU for not accepting a proposal they had already said wasn’t workable. Another fine mess etc....

Oh dear! May’s ambition to be PM led her to accept this poisoned chalice but even I feel sorry for her. This deal was unacceptable to many of her colleagues and cabinet, for one reason and unacceptable to the EU for another.

She looked completely shaken. But her arrogance in telling the EU leaders that it was this or nothing was completely wrong. Yet again she has miscalculated. They called her, very obvious, bluff.

Strong and stable ?

This short piece of independent journalism just about sums it up succinctly

May in denial after Salzburg humiliation

I rarely feel sympathy for any PM, they aren’t our friends or neighbours after all, but are always ambitious political people who actually want this top job.Having said that, I do think that once in the job they all realise it isn’t quite what they hoped it would be.T May must have inherited ( for want of a better word) this job at the worst peacetime time ever, and has had a difficult task of keeping things together, which, so far, against all odds she has managed to do.
All is still bluff and double bluff regards negotiations with the EU and nobody should read too much into what is ‘said’
By either side.

John Crace of the Guardian is not unbiased the has been viciously critical Brexit all along.
Bluff and double Bluff, it seems clear to me that the EU want UK to stay in the single market despite all the aggravation they still want us, they seem unanimous in this.
They are counting on the UK backing down eventually, TM and the Tories probably won't, Parliament probably will.

TM is doing her best with the poisonous job she has got (by default as Cameron ran for the hills, and the others in the leadership race resigned before the finish)

Nobody in Parliament either side of the house wants to be in her shoes!!!!!

Do,you really think Labour want an election now, that would mean they would have to get of off the fence they are hanging onto, particularly their leader, who all his political life has been anti EU, but since the referendum and his appointment has been quieter than a church mouse.

They will let TM take the responsibility for the Brexit debacle, she has my sympathies and admiration. She has no idea who will speak out against her next. She must be feeling totally isolated, vulnerable and very lonely.

I am hoping that as with any negotiations, you always have cards up your sleeve, and never reveal everything until the zero hour.

The EU are being firm and unmoving, they are using the UK as an example to other member states that you have joined and therefore you must stay.

They will let TM take the responsibility for the Brexit debacle
She's the PM Granny Gravy13 who the hell else is responsible for the debacle? Mickey Mouse?
She had already been told by Barnier on 3rd September that the Chequers proposal was "illegal, insane and an invitation to fraud." What did she think? He was going to be the only one objecting and the rest would win him over.
What I don't understand is that in any serious negotiation you go in with a first proposal and then a fall back proposal, with a number of things which are open to suggestion and change. If you go in with one proposal it's better called an ultimatum

I do feel that TM has made a difficult situation worse by her conviction that she can be a reincarnated Margaret Thatcher but -though I couldn't stand MT - TM does not exude authority, and her attempts to mimic MT - no compromise, my way or the highway etc. - have simply served to antagonise the other EU leaders.

trisher, the point I was trying to illustrate is, all this talk of overthrowing TM is just talk.

This is Cameron's mess!! MP's are sitting on their well paid backsides relieved it's not them in the firing line. Both sides of the house are happy for her to be the fall guy, I get the impression that is why no one is properly helping or supporting her.

I agree, for what it's worth, with GrannyGravy13, For me TM gets top marks for courage and tenacity, I can't see one other person in the HofC who could have taken so much flak and downright nastiness and not have collapsed long ago. Oh yes they all shriek and scream and bang their drums, but actually be faced with being in the line of fire, try it, and see how they run! From D.C to J.C, they're completely contemptible

Wld you say the same about a male PM GG13 ? Why hasn't she worked out a proper deal to take? She was in charge of the Chequers meeting and the agreement she should have done better.

Sorry that should be "Would"

I do not believe that the European Union are "bluffing" regarding their side of the negotiations.

Almost all the major manufacturers in the car and engineering sector have stated that future models and equipment will be produced in the EU, should the UK Leave without a customs agreement. In that, I feel that the European Union now believe they have much to gain in Britain leaving without any trade or custom agreement whatsoever.

Many UK businesses are already unable to get quotes from EU suppliers for products scheduled for delivery after March 2019. That situation means that those businesses often cannot quote their customers for work or supplies beyond that date also.

A total shambles that Britain has brought on itself and has to resolve in some way, but no one seems to agree on how that is to be achieved.