Labour Party Conference

mostlyharmless someone posted a few days ago that perhaps the homeless people should be relocated to "nice" areas of the SE.

My post was a follow up, of a discussion from yesterday.

My comments on the previous page referred to immigrants too. I assumed this had been one of the subjects discussed at the conference.

Er yes I know grannygravy.
On Tuesday you said your village was run by a Conservative council and was very well run and prosperous implying that Labour areas were badly run and couldn’t manage their budgets.
Then you said the nearby town was shocking and was a no go area run by gangs. As this is also run by a Conservative Council and the National Government has been Conservative for the last eight years I wonder how you explain the problems? Conservative rule is clearly not working for your local town.

The problems have been exacerbated by the relocation of people from outside the area.

The problem is contained in a relatively small part of the town unfortunately that area is the main High Street.

The Council is on the whole very successful, this can be seen in the surrounding areas which are flourishing.

Perhaps it’s not Labour run councils you are criticising. Perhaps you are critical of the Conservative Government’s unwillingness to control immigration as they are entitled to do under EU law.

“But the biggest deception is this: we could easily have taken back control of our borders already under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC, which allows EU member states to repatriate EU nationals after three months if they have not found a job or do not have the means to support themselves.”

Other countries, such as Belgium, regularly repatriate thousands of individuals based on this directive. If the public knew we had this ability, perhaps the fear that exists would dissipate. Why is the government not using it, and why is the British public not aware of it?
from the Guardian.

I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with drug dealers, pimps and "professional beggars".

It just so happens that in this instance the main perpetrators are not from the UK.

Never mind grannygravy. After Brexit, when we 'take back control" you will have nice British drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes after we get rid of all the foreign ones. The cheek of them eh? Coming over and taking local people's jobs.

Gill if you had to live in that area you wouldn’t think it was so hilarious.
What used to be a very nice area ( I know it well) has by all accounts ( not just by GrannyG) gone downhill with Albanian gangs.All because the EU says we have to have complete freedom of movement......madness.
What can be done now about it am not sure, as they will still be here after we leave the EU next March.

All because the EU says we have to have complete freedom of movement...

No it doesn't, lemon. You're just ignoring harmless's post (and what has been said many times on these threads)

The fact that EU rules which limit freedom of movement are being ignored in the UK is entirely down to our government. I doubt if the pimps and drug pushers can demonstrate that they have jobs or the 'means to support themselves'. They could be sent back but the UK government doesn't choose to do it.

Being a EU migrant does not give exemption from the law and has been repeated time and time again......we could have taken the same option as other member countries to limit the numbers admitted.

Yes please, lemon and similar posters, please lay the blame where it belongs, and not with EU rules.

I struggled to understand why anyone would vote to leave the EU but assumed that some places had problems with EU migrants. Reading the posts above helps me to understand why some people are so unhappy with the current situation.

it suits various agendas on here to make out that the UK is sinking into poverty.
Of course there are poorer families (goes without saying, where there are various reasons that they aren’t managing as well, and guess what?
There always have been, and always will be

Agreed. No one would want to face abject poverty, but at least in the UK we have a welfare system, so poverty is relative. Two young women from Eastern Europe I see regularly, both working, say it's very easy to be looked after in the UK, to be 'lazy' (their words) and to do nothing to help yourself is an option, which really surprises them. Where they hail from there are no state benefits and everyone works very hard. They feel they feel UK workers can slack off here and take liberties and employment laws would protect them. That is THEIR perspective which did make me think. They come from a much harsher environment and have a very strong work ethic, which they feel is missing here because of the benefits system. It was an interesting conversation.

Life isn't that simple and there are many and various reasons why people need state help, and I am thankful it's there for all in need, but as mentioned above, poverty has always existed and the Labour Party will not be able to alleviate it. Not one government in my living memory has succeeded.

It does suit the agenda of some left wingers here to perpetually describe the UK as an island of despair, where everything is rotten and broken, services are non existent, the police are failing, the NHS doesn't work and the streets are packed with 'homeless' people. It's a good way to paint your political adversaries as 'uncaring'.

Most of us know Comrade Corbyn and co would be unable to change very much at all. His followers seem to think a 'revolution' is needed. Most of us know those young 'revolutionaries' would be the first to bleat when their creature comforts were taken from them. They could not cope if their aim is to smash what we have and start again with socialist ideals. It's a rather pathetic notion, much spouted in comment sections of the Guardian.

I thank my lucky stars I live here, as do the two girls who came here and found a much better life and way of living. I am glad I live in the UK and there is no other place I'd want to be if I fell on hard times.

Venezuela is an extreme example of failed communism/socialism. People there are starving, rioting, living in utter despair amidst human rights violations and are themselves resorting to violence. We must remember Corbyn admired Chavez and has failed to condemn President Maduro, and his power grab. Maduro described Corbyn as "a great friend of Venezuela"

Theresa May has spoken out about the situation, condemning the government and calling on them to respect democracy and human rights. Corbyn wants a 'dialogue'.

I am not alone is suspecting the current Labour Party as being packed to the rafters with hard left revolutionaries with the one aim of bringing down the establishment and over throwing the status quo. They are full of hatred and mask it as 'caring' for the disadvantaged. It's also worrying that the 'disadvantaged' seems to be the only sector of society that ever gets a mention - by Labour, and it's supporters here.

Where are the moderates when they need to be heard, who recognise that the UK is far from being a sinking ship ripe for revolution?

PS Grandad - it's 4:02am.

Sorry about your insomnia I couldn't imagine thinking straight at 3 or 4am so I'm lucky having a normal sleep pattern.
I'd agree with pretty much all of your post, we live in a moderate society where most of us can feel safe in our homes. If I am ill I know I can see a doctor same day at no cost, my state pension arrives on time and I even get a winter fuel payment. My grandchildren have free education in an safe environment where anyone who wants to learn can.
Sure, the system is not perfect, never will be, more money for public services would help, more goodwill and cooperation would also contribute. The last thing we need is a bunch of left wing loonies proposing a workers takeover.

We saw all that in the 1970s when Harold Wilson let the unions have free reign, chaos for a few years and it had to end. Did workers benefit from the period of power?, in the short term only, Thatcher was elected and utterly destroyed the unions along with the Mining, Shipbuilding, Steel and Car Industries. Throwing whole communities onto the scrap heap, those populations have mostly clawed their way out of despair and the last thing they need now is another round of labour disputes because they will suffer most.

We are lucky to have effectively full employment, everyone who wants a job ( and turns up on time) has one, in addition we have to recruit several million overseas worker to keep the wheels turning. In particular, without overseas doctors, nurses, care workers, porters and caterers the health industry would collapse tomorrow.

It's not perfect but it's far better than many developed economies and compared to the US its paradise, being poor there is far worse.

Day6 I agree with your post totally. ??????

As for the insomnia I managed to get to sleep around 4am this morning, I feel dreadful at the moments, hope you are either asleep now or feeling better than I am.

When any EU workers come here I doubt they will put pimps or drug pushers on the forms, more likely they will work for their cousin’s cafe or shop or something! They don’t have to have a trade as such, just the means of support.

Feel sorry to all with insomnia, awful.

Great post Day6??

Great post Day6.

The moderates are not allowed to speak, what a mottle crew on the platform with Corbyn at the conference. McClusky sitting with the shadow cabinet. Dawn Butler received a standing ovation for paying tribute to the militants in Liverpool in the seventies and early eighties, Derek Hatton and Co, dead unburied, labour government brought down .

news.sky.com/story/dawn-butler-causes-militant-controversy-during-tribute-at-labour-party-conference-11506084

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6216661/The-Corbynista-Z-everything.html

Richard Littejohn’s Corbynistas A-Z of everything.

When any EU workers come here I doubt they will put pimps or drug pushers on the forms, more likely they will work for their cousin’s cafe or shop or something! They don’t have to have a trade as such, just the means of support

That has got to be one of the silliest things I have read. Tell that to my Polish dentist. Is being a joiner a trade?

My god, you lot are just weird!

Any mild suggestion that 'ordinary' people might be able to take some control of the way the country is run and take a more equable share of the wealth they help to produce through their own labour and you carry on as if it's the end of civilisation as you know it.

Have to laugh at Day6's post telling us that everything in the garden is just fine. I'm sure that I wasn't imagining all those anti-EU posts from people claiming that they couldn't get doctors and hospital appointments, that schools were overcrowded and no-body could get jobs because of freedom of movement, and if they did get jobs the pay was so low because of all those EU immigrants being willing to work for peanuts and so keeping wages down.

I suppose they think that once we've left the EU and sent all those pesky EU immigrants home our wonderful benevolent tory masters will right all these wrongs and the UK will become not just an OK place to live in, but an earthly paradise.

In the meantime we'll just continue to tug our forelocks to the rich and spit on those who think that life could be improved for those unfortunate enough not to be rich.

When I think of, among other things, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, The Chartists, the Women's Suffrage movement, the formation of the Labour Party, and the inception of the Welfare State, all of which were utterly revolutionary in their time, I'm pretty certain that you'd all be there condemning them along with the squires, landowners and mill owners.

Weird.

If Albanian immigrants are causing problems it is nothing to do with the EU because Albania is not in the EU.

It is the fault of our government for not policing illegal immigration properly and cuts to Police budgets that mean they don’t prosecute drug gangs and pimps. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU!

MaizieD
I needed to see my GP last week, phoned at 9am, no appointments left but come in at 11am and you will be seen I waited 20 minutes and got what I wanted. Now that sounds like pretty good service to me.

There are plenty of migrants earning good wages because they have more skills than UK workers, employers cannot find building workers or factory workers, anything involving practical skills, most employers don't bother with the Job Centre they go straight to the Agency and get migrants.

Albanians are a problem but there are plenty of home grown gangs involved in drugs and vice, whenever that is mentioned on the media Albanians don't actuall get mentioned but ther are other groups that get mentioned time and again.

Yes MazieD the Labour Party did create the NHS 70 years ago all credit to them but they have done very little useful since then.

And the far left lot here are gullible.

Do you tug your forelock Maizie ?

Mill owners have gone, you are fighting the fight of the 19th century .

Ordinary people take control? You believe this ?

The unions will take control, forget the 19th century, just think back to 1970 - 1997.

Postal strikes

Power cuts, hospitals had to depend on generators

Picket lines outside hospitals

Rubbish piled in the streets , rats racing around on pavements .

Mortuaries shipping corpses out to other parts of the country because strikes prevented the dead being buried.

Power to the people means power to the unions.

We cannot compare 2018 to the days of the tolpuddle marchers. Even though there was a call for a national strike at the conference, no mention of soup kitchens which in no way can be compared with food banks.

Power to the people , rubbish, an old militant cry.

I have one ex boyfriend, a violent and dreadful man.

At some point after he finished terrorising me, he took up tricking young girls from eastern EU countries to come over here and work as waitresses.

What he actually did was pass them on to his associates who forced them into prostitution.

Please do not think this vile ‘trade’ in young girls will stop if the non-UK pimps are gone. It won’t. As long as there is money to be made, girls will be abused.

(Yes I advised the police of such third and fourth hand information as I had about this. I obviously have no contact with him so I doubt it went anywhere, but I did report what I had been told.)