Labour Party Conference

Labour is not my party, but by god I wish more people would pay attention to Keir Starmer. There are too many people involved on all sides of the Brexit issue who are either peddling delusions or are incapable of acting like adults in the face of an extremely serious issue. Contrary to Gove’s famous statement, I am not tired of listening to experts as the technical side of Brexit (however it turns out) is completely undeliverable without the appropriate expertise.

Time to stop all the silly North /South envy perhaps gilly
It doesn’t help anything

North South envy ? Are you joking lemon ? There is no way on this earth I would want to live in the South .

Of course, the root of this debate can be found in the economy. Cutting services means cutting jobs and without jobs there isn't sufficient cash in the economy to drive it.

Although some areas of the UK may appear to be prosperous it could well be that is because many of the inhabitants are living on credit. There is a huge problem with personal debt in the UK. While national economies can run perfectly well while in debt, household economies can't because they truly have a limit to the amount of money available to them.

This is a very worrying article which explains a consequence of personal/household debt:

Now let’s come to the household sector (you and me) which as we know operates on different time scales. You and me are time limited. We cannot roll over a debt for decades or centuries. In the lower plot, I show the household sector on its own. This is really interesting. As you see households are mainly in surplus – they are saving rather than spending. Only very occassionally do they slip into deficit (red) – spend more than they save. This happened around 1988. If individuals spend more than they earn then eventually they have to stop, spending falls and the economy stalls. The result of the 1988 household deficit was the recession of the early 1990s. During a recession, households are, on average, repairing their balances sheets, i.e. saving rather than spending. Consequently, during and after a recession, we see a large private sector surplus and therefore necessarily a large public sector deficit – the mirror effect. This happened in the both the mid 90s and after the recession of 2008.

Given what I have described, the most shocking part of the household data is what happens after 2016 – follow the big red arrow. We have entered a period of household deficit of a magnitude and duration that is unprecedented in our history.

The lower of the two graphs is the one he is referring to. It shows a level of household debt greater than any in the last 20 years (at least). And note what he says

The result of the 1988 household deficit was the recession of the early 1990s

Yet household debt then was miniscule compared to now

www.progressivepulse.org/economics/the-single-most-important-piece-of-economics-that-everyone-should-know

Of course, added to that, we could have a big economic shock as a result of Brexit.

Can anyone explain how we're going to get out of this without the government putting some money into the economy in the form of the Green QE favoured by Labour?

Because private enterprise isn't going to do it; they're not going to prosper, and there aren't going to be any startups, if people don't have much, or any, money to spend.

Time to stop all the silly North /South envy perhaps gilly

There's no North/South envy here. Posters are just telling it like it is.

They tend to be Rumanian oldbatty, it is a very sad and worrying situation for all concerned. I hope that the females have not been trafficked, which in all probability they have.

I do not belong to any political party, have no idea who would get my vote if they were to call a GE. All I have to go on is my local MP who hasn't been involved in anything "dodgy" or "controversial".

I do not have to visit this seaside town, and will not take my GC there, I know I am now in a fortunate position, but I am not blinkered to other people's plights.

No party has come up with anything that has grabbed my attention, from what I can see politics has sunk to an all time low.

I have just been reading about Green QE, it sounds like a very good idea.

Granny Gravy....Romanian or Roma?

I believe that the majority of ones causing the problems are Roma, but could not be ? certain all of them are.

We have had a large influx of Polish and Turkish folks, who have integrated well, and opened up their own businesses, which in turn provides jobs and revenue. We only hope that this minority of troubled souls do not tarnish the rest.

Oops just spotted my earlier spelling mistake obviously I cannot multi task at the moment.

Roma are a race of people and not Eastern European. I'm not being awkward. Roma are hugely discriminated against in Romania.

That doesn't make any of what you are experiencing acceptable GG13.

oldbatty, I live 20mins away from this town, I do not go there.

A lot of elderly people have retired there.

Either side of the town there are seafront houses and apartments, majority worth £850,000 upwards. These residents go to the next small town/village (not sure of exact definition of either), to spend there money, the businesses there are booming, most are small stand alone restaurants and boutiques.

It will take many years to gain back the reputation and standing which has so quickly been lost.

" but by god I wish more people would pay attention to Keir Starmer. "

You mean the same Keir Starmer with his unequivocal

There’s no dispute that Britain will leave the European Union in March 2019. Labour voted to trigger Article 50 and we did so knowing that we would leave the EU within two years



Labour selling it's supporters down the river.

Thank GG , an interesting conversation

Day 6- you mean the 87% of Labour who want to remain- really?

But Corbyn , McDonald and Co want out

87% of what jura - Labour Members, or Labour voters?

Bear in mind there is a huge Labour Leave movement and in many heartlands working class Labour supporters voted out. (This was when we were told by Remainers that the uneducated and old were to blame - for virtually everything)

Could just be that 'new' uber left Labour with it's Marxist and wealthy middle class liberal element - who know what's best for all of us - (that's the way the party has shifted) want to Remain?

Labour has long since forgotten its roots.

Large parts of South Wales voted leave , most of South Wales is Labour

Labour's Brexit policy has been about ambiguity and fudging issues all along. What's changed?

One of politics biggest Eurosceptics, Corbyn, hasn't even the guts to stand by his party's promise to respect the result of the referendum.

Labour is a disgrace, and they may well never come to power again.

It makes me laugh to think that the LP dare to criticise TM’s handling of Brexit . I wonder what JC might’ve done differently ? I can’t follow the LPC . Has he suggested anything ?

Most of the Midlands and North were the same Annie. Voted to Leave. Very fe areas wanted to remain. Traditional working classes and by nature Labour voters wanted out of the EU.

Labour is sticking two fingers up at these people.

Well put Anniebach, but that is not what the Tories want, at present they call the tune. Regardless of Brexit the Tories want to stay in power they will do anything to ensure that.

Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? The Conservatives were elected. Why should there be another GE? Let's not forget Labour LOST the last one.

They had a good turn out at the last election because TM misjudged the mood and because of Labour/Momentum recruitment of the young (naive, revolutionaries) to swell party numbers. TM almost handed the country on a plate to Corbyn.

However, I get a distinct feeling the mood has changed. As many have said, can you imagine Corbyn and his acolytes being in charge of the Brexit negotiations?

They can criticise May - many have - but Corbyn blows with the wind, to his shame, in order to get behind the desk in No 10. He has wanted out of the EU for decades. Look at his position now. He is being manipulated and his strings are being pulled by the NEC - which is Momentum's base.

No one is yet aware of Labour's Brexit policy - surprise, surprise. When it's made clear I expect it will be a complete betrayal of the referendum.

More than 60% of Labour voters voted Remain at the referendum. 'Labour heartlands' comprise voters of all persuasion. The tory ones especially were most likely to vote Leave.

I suspect that the 'traditional working class labour voters voted Leave' story is not as straightforward as the extreme Leavers on here would like to think it is.

Having watched some of the Conference, has it always been like this before now ( a bit shambolic, lots of name calling and booing it’s own speakers)?
Starmer is now saying quite the opposite to what he said last year.Corbyn and McDonnell are not quite agreeing with each other either.
There is so much fudge they should have been boxing and selling it.
They are trying to placate members ( mainly Remainers) and also placate voters ( loads of Leavers) by all this obfuscation, but people can see through it.

gilly I don’t understand why you aren’t a staunch Labour supporter. Jeremy feels just as you do over the Royals and you certainly make a good case for the downtrodden, overworked and those put upon by the present polical climate.