Woman - a word that needs to be redefined?

Jennifer Eccles Pip hasn't just been put up for an award, he has been given an award as a 'female' executive who has contributed to the advancement of women in business.
So has another man, Nicci Take.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slip-on-a-frock-chaps-and-be-a-top-100-woman-scxl3qtqj

Just watched both videos.

It would be so good if Noel Edmunds popped up at some point with a ’gotcha’ for us. Surely it’s time for a bit of sense.

IMO a man is a man until he’s had all his bits chopped off and is stuffed with hormones. Even then he isn’t a woman like me. A woman also needs to be stuffed with hormones and ( not sure about the rest) if she wants to identify as a man.
Anything else is just pretend isn’t it? Sort of transgender light.

I would imagine the law defines what that means, since its a one of the conditions for being granted legal status as female, I think?

Those opposed to the poster want all thresholds re what defines a woman removed. Not only that but they want us to not define ourselves as women due to biology.

Ok, I must have found the ultimate example of where all this madness can lead.

The MoS last Sunday had a story of a male bank director who has been included in a list of Britain's top 100 female executives, simply because he describes himself as 'gender fluid'. He is married with 2 children.

Some days he goes to work in a man's suit, and he's Philip. Other days he is in a dress, long wig and high heels and likes to be called Pippa!

So, because he likes to dress as a woman at work some days, he has been put up for this woman's award!

Honestly, words fail me.

Here's a fun video about what self-id of gender will bring about :

l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGz_wpVhD6vo%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&h=AT3qREsuI_zXnaUyMenh3MRAA_T-aa0n_d5fg5kZY6odaJ8OI4aWedIyUs1TKBt99nwP2Z_g-CttIyRPL7UWFS_d8TgdBIoK2Sy4elLd6KYOVk8hKGj4xxzyR4TI0ncKeGI

I'm with those who believe this is a psychiatric issue not a physical one, Doodle, Jennifer E*, Sparklefizz et al. I don't think we're alone in this either. A while ago I heard a discussion on R4 where a psychiatrist was saying just that.

This seems to me to be one of those issues where the minority is dictating policy, to the detriment of the majority.

Some trans people are now saying that the idea of a 'wrong' body should be abandoned.
They say that if someone identifies as female/male then their body is female/male with no alteration required.

Yes, it's children I am most concerned about in all this madness.

The worrying thing is, the militant trans activists are becoming very powerful, and it almost seems as if no-one dares to challenge them. I am sure in years to come there will be a lot of very disturbed people around who were drawn into this.

Surely if a person feels they have been born in the 'wrong' body, then the problem lies in their mind. They should be having psychiatric help, not surgery. There is nothing wrong with their bodies, it's a mental malfunction which should be helped.

I'm perfectly certain though that that view would not be well accepted by the trans extremists.

For anyone who hasn't seen this - the government has a consultation on reforming the Gender Recognition Act for England and Wales. It closes on 19th October.
Here is a link to it :
consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/

From the BBC link in the OP :
"Dr Adrian Harrop, whose complaint led to the poster's removal, said the billboard was a "symbol that makes transgender people feel unsafe"."

Dr Harrop, in the sky news / youtube interview linked upthread, stated that the group who created the poster were trying to "appropriate" the word 'woman'.

My understanding is that Dr Harrop and others believe that anyone who decides to call themselves a woman / man is to have that completely accepted as fact.
The poster is meant to make the point that only biological females can be called women.
So Dr Harrop, and others, believe that the poster encourages prejudice towards transwomen which makes them feel unsafe.

Phew! It is all chromosone dictated. You are either a man or a woman; male or female.

If you decide to take hormones of the opposite sex or have surgery, your body will change, but your chromosones will not.

I have a friend who changed male to female - I still like her (as I must now say), but also this poor person looks like a pantomime dame with male facial features (including a big hooked nose), huge feet and 6ft 6 tall. No way could she be thought to be a woman.

I think it is very sad that he was so unhappy in the body given that he went through all this surgery (with many dangerous complications) and other life-changing interventions.

I think that it is fine to make the choice to do this, but that intact males can call themselves female if that is what they wish, but not fine to enter exclusively female spaces.

I also think that people should not be frowned upon if they fail to spot which gender someone is saying they are.

There was an interesting thread on Mumsnet where a school teacher announced to her Yr 7 class that she was gender fluid and they could call her Miss X, Mr X or Dr X as they so choose. How very self-indulgent to put these adolescent pupils in that uncomfortable situation, giving no thought to them but just to oneself. Silly woman/mad/neuter!

Trans people do want to redefine the word 'man' also but there is not much opposition to this because men do not feel any great threat from the idea of transmen (female-bodied people) being in their changing rooms etc.

I am with Doodle, JenniferEcles and Sparklefizz. I do not fully understand this at all. Why do women need to be re-defined. Isn’t that a bit late after all these years? Why do men not need to be re-defined? Aren’t some humans now identifying as men? It worries me too, I am relieved I am nearer the end of my life than the beginning. I have always felt more comfortable with the familiar.

I am with doodle and JenniferEccles .... The whole world has gone completely mad in my view and what the future holds when we have let these crazy genies out of the bottle really scares me.

This is all completely crazy .

The facts are this: If you were born with the YX chromosome you are male.
If you were born with the XX chromosome you are female.

It makes no difference whatsoever how anyone dresses, how many hormones they have pumped into them, or how much they have had their poor bodies mutilated by surgery, they are still male or female according to which chromosomes they have.

I find this really difficult to get my head round.
I accept there are people who feel they have been born into the wrong sex and desire medication/procedure to become the sex they feel they should be. I am ok with that.
I do not understand that a man who physically is still a man and is not undergoing sex change can self identify as a woman and be allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms. The world has gone mad in my opinion. This is one change too many for my simple mind.
Girl guides who identify as boys leave, boys who identify as girls join and share showers and tents.

Upthread someone said that the 'Adult human female' poster was taken down 'because, apparently, it causes some trans people to feel unsafe'.

They may not like it, clearly they don't, but Unsafe? How can that be? I realise the post was quoting from somewhere, but could we unpick this a bit?

I'm a demigrey

At present there is, at least, a legal definition of what 'living as a woman' means and a requirement that transwomen should meet that definition.

The government's proposal for self-declaration of gender identity would remove that definition and requirement.

Here is an interesting interview with the person who had the poster put up and the person whose objection resulted in it being removed.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4IhPncF3w&feature=youtu.be

Tut! I meant I wouldn't know what living as a female entails, specifically, in terms of the legalities.

I would imagine the law defines what that means, since its a one of the conditions for being granted legal status as female, I think?
I would know, as all the women know are very different, but still they're all female.

I don't believe someone living as a woman in every way

Can you quantify what you mean by that?

What is "living as a woman" if it is not being one physically?

Unless you define women and girls as people who look and act "girly". Is this a great message for the next generation? How is this moving forward not back?

I don't care if I'm a real woman by anyone else's standards.
I'm a fairly good one by my own.

If people are recognised by law as women, who am I to argue?
I don't believe someone living as a woman in every way being referred to as a woman takes away from me being one.