The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

I wonder how these young people would fare in a world of zero hours contracts and minimum wage if there was no alternative. Anyone thinking the army is a better option and then being disillusioned is just as likely to do the same in a civilian job. Many youngsters simply do not have a work ethic and if the army isn't for them then what is?

How many people living on the streets with no future prospects and heading for a life of drugs and crime have been nowhere near an army recruitment office?

'If parents, police, neighbours , social services and teachers all find a sixteen year old difficult it does begger the question - is this sixteen year old beyond human help?'

hopefully not annie- with proper structures, training, apprenticeships, funding, support ...

Are you really saying that if they are almost beyond human help - giving them a gun and sending them to war- will help them sort themselves out?

I just cannot get my head around this concept at all.

We have to bear in mind that although army recruits receive weapons training and are sent to war zones/trouble spots, not all of them take part in armed combat. Many of them are in the catering corps, pharmacy assistants, admin, nursing and many other worthwhile trades that will stand them in good stead when they leave the forces.

A military career has been the making of many young men and women. Of course there will be those that fail but it's all too easy to blame the army for those failures.

Jura, we are speaking of a sixteen year old whose parents, teachers, police, neighbours, social services have been unable to help , where else is there support? We have to accept whilst the young need support we also have to accept there are some, for what ever reason, cannot be helped, do not want help, resist help.

I doubt a sixteen year old with these amount of problems would want to join the army , they could quite possibly find any discipline , and apprentices have to accept discipline , not for them. They would not enlist.

But they do Annie because they are sold a lie-money in your pocket, camaraderie, foreign travel, even a gun to shoot. Many of them just want to feel that they belong somewhere and are part of something. It's the same need that leads them to join gangs (and I don't suppose anybody approves of them giving children guns!)

What runs through this thread as well is a hatred of anyone fortunate enough because of circumstances of birth to be well off and well educated. Public school pupils are hated and despised as are men and women bright enough to enrol in the armed forces to be trained as officers.

Not only that, the forces which give many, many from less privileged backgrounds a chance in life, to learn skills, self respect, discipline, to see the world, earn a decent wage, make friends and have wonderful experiences* around the world they might not otherwise have, are scorned as parasites picking off the vulnerable. It's as though every army recruit is doomed, doomed to hellish existence after he/she leaves the forces.

(* A friend's young son has spent three months in Cyprus, on mainly guard duties. He has come back on leave with tales of beach parties, sporting events, physical challenges, sunshine, good friends and a role/job he really enjoys. A few years ago he was drifting and of course his mother worried his life on enrolment that his life would be about fighting wars, but that is only one element of service life. She says he has grown up, matured and become a sensible and happy young man. Her pride in him is visible and rightly so.)

It's unbelievable. Some people who claim to be Labour supporters are so sour. The bitterness, envy and scorn just pours from them. Compassionate Labour? Not with all the hatred and nastiness as demonstrate here in their 'ranks'. No way.

You get the feeling that some here would eradicate all those with privilege, money and a good lifestyle. Let's all struggle together shall we? They'll certainly be taxed out of existence if Corbyn and Labour ever form a government.

Yes, but fortunately it's just a few here on GN POGS and good to read reasonable posts from the many about it.
I am assuming the 'sour grapers' simply prefer to talk about Army recruits rather than the LP.

Day6 - I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post - well said ????????????

I am not talking about privilege; just saying that recruitment needs to be targeted correctly and not at vulnerable children.

I am glad your friend's son has found it a good experience - it sounds as though he comes from a good caring home judging by his mother's response. This is not the sort of family that I am talking about - far from it.

Heavens above - what has sour grapes got to with anything!!??

Expressing concern for vulnerable children who are not in a position to make proper decisions is just that. I am amazed that so many people do not share concern for these poor souls. But maybe you have to be a SW to truly know what is going on under our noses - certainly the government do not seem to care.

I think that Day6 is reading this thread in a parallel universe, Luckygirl. I can't see any sour grapes.

I can see a childish attempt at denigrating anyone slightly to the left of Genghis Kahn, though...

Well, from what I read on Google News even the British "red top" newspapers are through gritted teeth acknowledging that the Labour party had a very successful conference.
I thought that half of the so-called 'red tops' were Labour supporting newspapers anyway

since Day6 always but always writes extremely well [ you may not agree with her point of view...that's another story]
MaizieD but she never does anything in a childish way so your comment is merely a point scoring one.

Lucky you have strong feelings because of what you have witnessed and heard, but you, as a SW did not hear the thousandsof success stories and you simply can't throw the baby out with the bathwater IMHO.

thanks for heading us back to the thread topic Jalima

Really I sometimes despair of the level of analysis and understanding exhibited by some on GN. No one has criticised individuals. No one has said there are none who benefit from army training. We are discussing 16 year olds from disadvantaged backgrounds who are recruited too early. They are children and a civilised society proects its children as best it can. Andthe best protecton for these children would be for us to adopt the same regulations as all other EU countries and not recruit until 18. The UN advises this.
And for those who doubt the numbers
The Ministry of Defence released the UK armed forces biannual diversity statistics 2016. They show that the proportion of the Army's intake aged under 18 increased from 22.5 per cent to 24.1 per cent. The armed forces as a whole recruited 1,140 16-year-olds and 1,250 17-year-olds, from a total of 12,300 new recruits.

Child Soldiers International say Army recruitment policies place the minors in the riskiest roles in the infantry and forces them to serve longer minimum service periods. Recruits aged 16 have a total minimum service period of six years, while 17-year-olds must serve for five. Adults can be discharged after four years' service.

The UK is the only permanent member of the UN Security Council that still recruits 16-year-olds

Cannon fodder indeed!.

It's unbelievable. Some people who claim to be Labour supporters are so sour. The bitterness, envy and scorn just pours from them. Compassionate Labour? Not with all the hatred and nastiness as demonstrate here in their 'ranks'. No way.

I would sadly have to agree.
Ask your average CURRENT labour supporter "why labour" and you unleash a tirade of venom about everyone who is non labour.
Labour support at the moment is being built on hate & division. You are either with us or against us. If you arent voting labour (even if you previously did) you are disablist Tory scum.

Previously , if you asked labour supporters "why labour" , you might get the odd Thatcher rant but you would also get bright eyed enthusiasm for Labour policies and an engaging discussion. Not insults for not being one of them.

Sorry to have only just come across this thread, but I'd like to say I watched Question Time and was appalled by Rod Liddle's vitriolic rant, I thought he came across as an absolutely despicable individual.

Where is the lie trisher? They are paid, they is camaraderie, there is travel, and they are trained to use arms plus other training.

There is a very dangerous culture around labour right now. They have become more divisive than ukip!

Ask your average CURRENT labour supporter "why labour" and you unleash a tirade of venom about everyone who is non labour.

I don't recall that question being asked of Labour supporters on Gnet, notanan.

It really is 'make it all up' time here on Gnet today

@lemon, I'll grant you that Day6 has a great facility with words but it doesn't make her content any more sensible. It just helps her to get the venom out more fluently.

good posts notanan2 which is why Labour is now the nasty party.

I can't see any sour grapes.

Oh dear. <sigh> That's because MaizieD I didn't mention sour grapes

That particular phrase concerns envy, and wanting something you cannot attain.

To be described as sour, however, generally means you are angry, grumpy and bitter. It's been demonstrated by some Labour supporters on this thread.

Sorry to be pedantic but your comprehension skills seem to be lacking.

Maizie you confuse venom with 'not what you personally agree with'... a common mistake on GN politics threads.

I am a Labour Party member and I agree envy and almost hatred is what is pouring from a section of the Labour Party since Corbyn became leader

I find it surprising that some can't see it Annie as it gets reported enough!