The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

As I've always understood it, Annie it's the party's manifesto with input from more than one person.

Leave personalities aside for a moment and look at it objectively. Why would one vote to be made poorer and lose vital public services just because one didn't like a party leader?

A couple of years ago I would have suggested that Parliament would be able to check policy excesses but current experience has made me less confident...

Maizie, even more unable to trust, who with Corbyn put forward the manifesto.

.you like others of the far left will not accept I am a Labour Party member who has no trust in Corbyn and his inner team , no idea what the msn is like to sit and have a chat with, I do not bother with press critcism , i do not trust him .

I'm not 'of the far left', Annie. I really wish you'd all stop categorising people. (And I'm not intending to spend wearisome hours defending that statement)

Your choice, vote to be made poorer; it's fine by me.

You assume if and how I vote Maizie

I have been catergorised as a Tory ,

I have been catergorised as a Tory

Not by me, Annie

And if you don't vote at all that's fine. Your choice again.

Derek Hatton has claimed he is now Labour Party member after being expelled from the party 33 years ago after setting an illegal council budget.

The Labour Party has said he is not a member but have found no reason to reject his application.

I am sure they haven’t, he was and is a left wing militant who has become very wealthy in the 33 years making money out of property dealings

They are so wedded to the myth that a national economy can be run like a household economy that they can be conned into voting for the party which shouts loudest about debt and deficit and 'the need to cut expenditure' when in fact 'cuts' make no economic sense whatsoever.

Exactly so MaizieD - I suspect the grocer's daughter peddled this fantasy. In the context of our current situation we need to borrow and spend (shock/ horror!) on infrastructure, houses, roads, rail, etc. That would create jobs (and spending power to stimulate the economy), relieve social stagnation, and create homes and infrastructure that benefits the country economically.

If this had been government policy, the chances of a Brexit vote going through would have been highly unlikely - the dissatisfied "underclass" of people who have been overlooked and sidelined would have been smaller.

Oh Luckygirl...... really ? ‘The grocer’s daughter’ ?!
what are you, the daughter of an Earl? Such contemptous snobbery, am very surprised at you.

Sometimes I almost wish we did have Corbyn as PM and McDonnell as Chancellor for a few years then some on here
Would truly see the mess caused by excessive borrowing and spending from those who would always clobber business, the very people who create the wealth for the country in the first place.

....and more snobbery from you in your final paragragh,
‘Dissatisfied underclass’ indeed!

lemongrove I think you are talking to the proverbial brick wall!!!

As a small business owner, and employer I shudder at the thought of Corbyn, McDonnel and Abbott running the country. It is ridiculous to think that throwing money at something is the solution!!!

Building ( certainly in England) is underway on a massive scale btw.

It is not snobbery - it is reality. All the analyses of the Brexit vote that I have read talk about the vast swathe of disadvantaged people who saw it as an opportunity to give a bloody nose to those who care not one jot about them or their needs.

There is nothing wrong with being a grocer's daughter - so no snobbery there, unless you care to read it as such - but the fallacy she brought to her job that national economies equate to domestic budgets is haunting us still.

^ It is ridiculous to think that throwing money at something is the solution!!!^

And as a small business owner, GG, I suppose you think it's grand that under the tories people have less money to spend.

How do you make a living when people can't afford to buy what you sell?

Luckygirl, yes Thatchers fathers was a grocer,, why refer to thatcher as ‘the grocers daughter? Because she was female?

I thought you were more worthy than that put down

Sorry, but it must be snobbery to have said that, also about the ‘underclass’ and I was surprised at it from you.
I am wondering tho wrote all the analysis about Brexit that you have been reading because there certainly are not over 17 or more million who voted Leave fitting your description.
Am guessing it was written by many angry Remainers.
If you are not a Labour supporter btw you shouldn’t be hoping for a Corbyn (Marxist) led government simply because you hope that he may reverse leaving the EU.
He won’t!

Envy, now snobbery, Corbyn’s gentler politics

MaizieD, we sell to tradesmen, builders, plumbers etc., big companies and one man bands.

We import from Europe (ours suppliers are not worried about 29/3/2019 nor are we).

There are plenty of homes being built round here, all with affordable housing as part of the projects. There are offices and factory refurbishments.

Please do not concern yourself with "how I make a living"

I am so fed up with the constant how bad it is under the Tories!!! Yes some people are not as well off as others, but it was like that under Labour, in fact more so as unemployment was at record highs.

Some on here may live in a bubble, because the building industry is booming ( look it up) and the vast number of people in the UK are doing well, people can and do buy what businesses sell, delivery services have also boomed delivering the many things that people buy.
It’s a myth that all in our country are struggling along.

That doesn’t mean we can’t help those who are aren’t btw but if the economy does well then we can do that, not running the UK down as Corbyn no doubt would given half a chance.

lemongrove ?????

It is tough under the tories for many many people and we cannot close our eyes to that.

The term "grocer's daughter" is a well-known light-hearted reference to Mrs Thatcher. Please don't seek offence where none is intended. It is not a put-down because I see nothing whatever wrong with being a grocer's daughter. It is only a put-down if the person reading thinks this is an unacceptable thing to be. I don't.

I am not an "angry Remainer" by the way and have no wish to see Brexit reversed - it is simply not a realistic idea. Nor were the analyses I read written by such people.

I am simply saying that many believe that if successive governments had not ignored the needs of those for whom society functions in a way that leaves them behind, the referendum result might have been very different. You cannot ignore the needs of vast swathes of people in favour of propping up international capital and the fat cats (now that is intended to be an insult!) without there being some sort of backlash. The word "underclass" is not an insult - it is an accurate and factual description of those who are suffering in our society. We ignore them at our peril; both because of the chaos that has been unleashed by Brexit, and also because it decreases our humanity if we ignore them.

The more people who are in work (and thus able to spend), the better for everyone, both socially and economically. The only way to create jobs is to borrow the money to build what we need and to save our creaking services.

lemongrove- I am not sure if you have noticed- but Brexit has NOT happened yet.

More people are working than in the last 40 years Luckygirl which is why most people in the UK are doing ok.
You didn’t seem to know that building is booming either.
I am not personally offended by your grocer’s daughter reference but wouldn’t use that description of a past PM, in fact, would think they had done very well to rise to that position, particularly for a woman!
The last few governments have borrowed money btw.
Feeling sorry for those with less than yourself by hoping for a Marxist led government is not the way forward.

I agree with what MaizieD and Luckygirl are saying with regards to running the economy. It is perfectly o.k. not to disagree, and to give reasons for that, but it does not help the discussion to take an innocuous phrase and somehow use that to make inferences that a poster is a "snob", or "envious", when it is obvious that that is not what was meant.