The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

I believe that a great many of the one in five people now working in the Gig Economy with no holidays pay, no sick pay, no guaranteed hours, no guaranteed basic hours and many without any set hourly pay rate at all believe that capitalism is not working for them

A long time ago Maze. It was pretty turgid. Sadly perfect competition has never really exists or existed - except in economics textbooks!

After Marx I found the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists nearer to reality.

Have you read Adam Smith, grannyp. I'm having a go but there's such a lot to wade through before you get to the nub of it.

I bet I can predict who has and who hasn't, grannyp

I wonder what does influence people's political thinking... (apart from the MSM, of course)

Actually I could say Marx was a breath of fresh air after studying economics at uni where profit margins were almost zero (excepting of course very exceptional cases of monopolies!!). The workers and their contributions never got much of a look in either - probably because they only get about half their contribution.

Of course, SOME of the increased wealth goes back into research and development but SOME of it ends up in banana republics or very conspicuous consumption..

Jura2 I agree with some of your last paragraph.

Unfortunately we are left with so called "Hobsons Choice" as there is not a credible or electable centre political party in the UK.

Yes

Has anybody here read any of Marx's work?

GrannyGravy13- that certainly does NOT include me. I see no issue whatsoever in people making profit, seeing the benefit of their hard work- that includes most of my friends and family, some at the highest level. And State owned things are not all run as in the old USSR.

Always the same with some of you- concentrating always on extremes and Hobson's ridiculous choices. There are other possible ways. Profit is not at all wrong- as long as it is based on fair employment, environmental, safety, rules.

And.... what is acceptable Capitalism and where is it likely to emerge?

Guardian 2018: While developers are required by local authorities to provide a proportion of affordable homes – often about 30% – in any new development, many use “viability assessments” to negotiate down the number by arguing that the requirement would adversely affect their profit margins. Last year Shelter conducted research showing that the use of viability assessments in 11 local authorities across England contributed to 79% fewer affordable homes being built in urban areas of England than would have been if local rules had been followed to the letter.

So, what is an acceptable profit margin? The Economics Foundation states (2017): For the redevelopment of the Heygate Estate in Elephant & Castle, the level of ​‘acceptable’ profit was fixed at 25% – equating to around £300m. Result - every single new flat on this estate was sold to foreign investors (Jones 2017).

There are ways and ways to run a Capitalist system - the human way- and the other. We certainly have 'the other' at the moment.

The Capitalist system may not be perfect but is the best there is.

It’s business jura if companies want to be successful, and most do, then they have to provide good services.Ones that don’t will fall by the wayside, be picked up by other companies and do better.
State owned things tend to not care much, as witnessed in The old USSR days.

lemon, there are those who do not like to see businesses making a profit, even small ones like mine seem to be on the public enemy list of the Corbynistas

so yes, either bled dry by the Unions- or bled double dry by greedy shareholders and banks most of them abroad. Those who benefit massively from profits and sales, but expect to be bailed out when things go pear shaped?

What a terrible choice.

yes lemongrove, that Hobson's disaster choice again.

Are you telling me that those companies are not run for the benefit of their shareholders mainly (most of them are not British) - and that maintenance, upgrading and improvements have really been satisfactory to us the customers- really?

Corbyns cronies would bleed this country dry and leave office with an enormous defecit.

There would be strikes, short working weeks but that would not bother him or his pals that he has just given nice pay rises to?

jura2 there must be the need for 4 bedroom houses where you are. I know builders and they will not build what they cannot sell.

In my area SE, we have had multiple developments of 1 & 2 bedroom flats, 50 percent on the buy half rent half schemes and affordable housing. They have to provide on the affordable part of the development or they are not granted planning position.

They won’t want to ‘have us over a barrel’ they are companies who want to make profits.....shock horror that is what business does, makes money and to do that has to be run efficiently.....which is where State owned things fall down.

Not here jura there are 1,2,3 and four bed homes being built and plenty of ‘em!

They even own most of our water. If they wanted to - they would have us totally over a barrel.

Foreign governments are making hundreds of millions of pounds a year running British public services, according to an Independent investigation highlighting how privatisation is benefiting overseas – rather than UK – taxpayers.

Swathes of Britain’s energy, transport and utility networks are run by companies owned by other European governments – meaning foreign exchequers reap the dividends while UK customers struggle with increasing fares and bills.

In the past two years alone, overseas taxpayers have taken dividends totalling nearly £1bn from companies which make their profits from UK households and passengers.

Well of course we do GrannyG but those who pursue marxist ideals won’t accept capitalism, everything would be State run, money to cover their mad plans would be borrowed, ( they won’t worry about any paying it back)
Inflation could ensue etc etc.
The young are idealistic and swallow ( a lot of them) what a kindly looking old uncle tells them.Thank goodness most of them can’t be bothered to go out and vote.

Private investment has seen all our essential utilities, even water and nuclear power, our main transport systems, including airports- being sold to rich investors - not British ones- foreign, some from EU, some from afar.

How can Great Britain get back control - when they have deliberately, sold it to the EU and to others, like China, etc?
This is something I just cannot get my head around. We have lost control already- by selling it,

And now, we intend to sell education and the NHS to the USA?!? and give up our welfare, environment and agricultural standards to the USA too in exchange for any (desperate) deal, and virtually become the 51st State- without representation. How can this be 'getting back control'?

As for building - lots going on now- with a massive % of foreign workers at all levels, and freetrade in importing materials from the EU ... and with a significant % going to rich foreign investors. Very little affordable housing - even those developers who had to promise a good % of units being 'affordable' have now been allowed to backtrack.

How much affordable housing is going on in your area, on your green belt. Near us in the East Midlands, it is all detached 4-5 bed houses with 3 bathrooms, etc .

Paddyann, I am a coal miners daughter, to speak of me as the coal miners daughter when I have a name , not acceptable