The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

I am not sure about the NHS, but I believe Boris (the buffoon) Johnson would sell his own granny if he thought it would "bring him in a few bob."

If he gets the premiership, then that will be the best thing that could ever happen for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn.

If he gets the premiership, then that will be the best thing that could ever happen for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn.

Nope. It won't.
Because not being the Tories is no longer enough to save labour.

I'll just not vote. For the first time ever. I don't think I'll be the only one.

Thank you Jalima. I certaintly will not sign, I don’t live in England, to sign would be morally wrong.

notanan2, if you do not vote then, that would be a pity. However, with the exception of the faithful Conservative party members (who are a very small number), I believe that Boris Johnson would be a very big turn off to the electorate in any GE.

It has to be remembered, Corbyns best strength is addressing crowds at stand up election meeting. It would also be "pounded" that a British mother still resides in an Iranian prison because of his incompetence when he held the position of Foreign Secretary.

Not a great election winner

I wasn’t going to vote, perhaps I will decide come the election, certaintly not for Corbyn. Boris may sell his grandmother but Corbyn would sell his soul.

Corbyn’s best strength is addressing crowds, Momentum line up a crowd for him, he couldn’t cope with hecklers as he can’t cope with interviews. McDonald does these for him.

Anniebach, as a closet Tory no one would expect you to state anything different to what you have stated in your above two posts.

Grandad1943, as a closet Militant , your post is no surprise .

‘Up the revelation ‘ ?

Annie and Jalima - no, it is not morally wrong to sign, if you don't live in England, or even if you live abroad. Do you really think that if the England NHS is sold off, be it to Branson or to Trump- the same would not happen to NHS Wales or Scotland? The NHS is the NHS - wherever you live in the UK.

Retirees from the UK, into the EU or Switzerland, without revenue or pension from the EU- are covered by reciprocal arrangement with the EU, via Form S1 - so it is their NHS, just as much as anyone else- to which they have contributed all their lives - and in the case of OH, more than most.

And this is one of the real worries for retirees in the EU currently- just one of many. If we lose reciprocal health care, it will cost us about £1000 a month for cover. Which, combined with Sterling going down and down - will mean some people will not be able to remain abroad.

If and when they come back, with nothing- as unable to sell home- they will have a massive impact on housing, NHS, social services, and more.

Jalima- there are plenty of websites re houses for sale in France. And yes, amazing bargains. I know of several people desperate to sell- even with a drop bottom price not covering purchase and renovation cost at all, sales often falll through at last minute. So yes, plenty of bargains out there for sure.

Thank you Jalima. I certaintly will not sign, I don’t live in England, to sign would be morally wrong.

Does Wales run its own NHS, Annie, like Scotland does?

I believe that Boris Johnson would be a very big turn off to the electorate in any GE.
As is Corbyn.
This time Tory's fail won't be Labour's win.

They are both shockingly bad options.

Between the two Boris is IMO the SLIGHTLY lesser evil. That is not a compliment to Boris before you start telling me why he would be a disaster, I know he would. But Corbyn and the toxic current labour party are the pits!

Usually I can pick a party to vote for who may not be perfect, but aren't the worst have enough redeeming features to make them a choice I could live with. Sometimes that was labour. It is not now. And NOTHING the Tory party do right now could ease my conscience into voting Labour.

Yes Maizie

Day6 Which Prime Minister's speech are you referring to? This Prime minister or one David Cameron who also asserted that the NHS was safe in Tory hands? The problem is that the evidence proves entirely the opposite
Private care providers were awarded 267 out of a total of 386 contracts made available in 2016-17, including the seven highest value opportunities, worth £2.4bn.
Richard Branson’s Virgin Care scooped a record £1bn worth of contracts last year, meaning the company now has over 400 separate NHS contracts, making it the dominant private provider in the NHS market.
And of course there is the issue of the lowest bidder being given contracts when they are unable to actually provide the service, leading to the problem with disposal of hazardous waste.
Carry on with your delusion that the NHS is safe in Tory hands. But it is fiddling while Rome burns.

This is an interesting report:

In this report we explore the evidence about whichNHS contracts are being tendered, who is winning them and how these trends form part of the new direction the NHS is now taking. Our data is based largely on a process of analysing published awards, a data base that we have compiled from observations over the last 4 years

We also review the catalogue of problems that have emerged in the various types of outsourcing that have been tried, as part of the NHS market experiment.Some of these failures have undoubtedly influenced the current changes in strategic approach and led to the widely supported view that this experiment should end

www.nhsforsale.info/uploads/images/contract%20report%20dec%202017%2028_12_17%20.pdf

Of course, it's been compiled by and anti-privatisation organisation so some of you might say 'Well they would say that, wouldn't they?' but I'll just leave it here.

... as Jane said on the other thread ...

Annie, Closet millitant!! ???????

and it cuts boths ways- we have seen a massive anti expert campaign won by the tabloid press. And where every true 'expert' with massive experience and knowledge, is always 'balanced' by someone with an agenda, who has not got a clue apart from their ... agenda and prejudice.

When the CEO of Nissan says that they are preparing for the worst, but won't bother to tell the Government or the public, how and the possible consequences, because they will be accused of 'fear mongering' - you have to be seriously worried.

Wait, wait, smile, we will soon enough know - is beyond belief and ... well, more.

Hi niggly x

MaizieD it was my understanding that the increase is an average of £20 billion per year over five years, not an increase of £20 billion over the five years.

The NHS will receive increased funding of £20.5 billion per year by the end of 5 years.
www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-sets-out-5-year-nhs-funding-plan

That is how I read it anyway.

per year - I thought meant each year.

If the budget for Nhs England is cut then the others are cut by the same percentage
I didn't say it WAS being cut I said that decisions about it affected NHS Scotland and NI so we should all sign ...for example if budgets are cut it means ours will be too.

8paddyann* disingenuous as they say!

Do you really think that if the England NHS is sold off, be it to Branson or to Trump- the same would not happen to NHS Wales or Scotland?
Yes, jura, I really think that.

And I respect it - but would be really interested in how you come to that conclusion.

NHS debate has become toxic, with Labour claiming to be the saviours of the service, when in fact, we have to acknowledge that there have been, for a very long time, many NHS services provided by the private sector, a bonus in terms of efficiency, shorter waiting lists and the use of new technology and equipment.

A very interesting article in the Financial Times (August 2018) points out "Privately owned “independent sector treatment centres” set up by the Labour government in the early 2000s as part of a plan to clear long waiting lists for planned operations and diagnostic tests produced “a statistically significant improvement on average for patients undergoing hip or knee replacements compared to NHS providers”,

The fear is that the NHS will be sold off and run by private companies but as mentioned in the article
family doctors, who are the entry point to the system for most patients, are independent contractors. Private companies also provide the equipment and medicines that diagnose and treat patients.

Do we really KNOW where our care is coming from, how it's funded, who bought what, which firm provided which services or drugs, etc, etc, etc?

I have many trips to the hospital as an out patient and my specialist care is I feel sure, the best of it's kind. Cutting edge, no pun intended, treatment has been available for me. I cannot afford private care, and firmly stand by our wonderful NHS and its philosophy that at point of need, care will be free, for all.

If private involvement means there is competition we should see a striving for improvement, as long as these services are scrutinised, accountable, and provide not only value for money, but methods, procedures, specialisms an equipment that would be impossible for the NHS alone to provide.

No one wants to see the NHS pulled apart, bit by bit but given there has been beneficial private input for years and years, a very well kept secret, would we really have all those contracts torn up and expect our doctors, specialists and technicians to rebuild, from scratch? There is not money for development or research that private companies provide and bring to the NHS.

There are two sides to most stories. As someone who needs and values the NHS, as I imagine all of us do, we cannot keep fighting the status quo.

What we must do is holler very loudly and at every turn that value for money is provided, wherever services come from, and any corruption, inefficiency, mismanagement and squandering of funds is rooted out. NHS administration more than anything is long due an overhaul.

All of us, not just Labour supporters, demand this.

The NHS is not THEIR cause. It's a clever ploy to blame Conservatives for privatisation of services when the very same thing was introduced by a Labour Prime Minister, and was acknowledged to work and bring more efficiency to the NHS.

www.ft.com/content/8736afde-9f20-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4

Day6 why do you think it was necessary to use private healthcare facilities to reduce waiting lists when Labour came to power after years of Tory government. Because years of under investment had created such long waiting lists there was no other way to do it. And yes Labour did allow privatisation, but the way it is now being implemented means that we will alsmost certainly very soon have two teir service. Some of the services provided by the NHS are totally unprofitable, no one will want to privatise those. Meantime the privatised bits will pay money into private pockets, money which should be invested in services. Once someone's treatment becomes unprofitable of course they will be cast back to NHS provision.
Re-establishing public ownership of the NHS is vital.