Northern Ireland and Brexit

There is an obvious solution , and only one solution, to the problem of the Irish border - the UK must REMAIN in the EU.

I did not have to think long before I decided to vote remain, but I did think about the NI border problem, although I have never been to NI, I am old enough, as most grannies are, to remember the Troubles, the death and devastation caused by sectarianism, and the great achievement of the Good Friday Agreement.

If you voted Leave, and you are old enough to be a granny, and you did not even consider the consequenses for the island of Ireland, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. Now that you have been told how disastrous brexit could be, I trust you will think again and vote Remain if you get another opportunity.

What about Gibraltar too? They wish to stay British and also in the EU - Spain of course thinks otherwise. The border there is very easy as it is just one road and can easily be patrolled. The people living in Gibraltar - plus the military personnel there - do much of their shopping in Spain and many Spanish work in Gibraltar town,
Then there is the Falklands - they trade a lot with the EU and do not wish to leave.

All these folk are being ignored and disrespected, just like the three quarters of the British population who did not vote for this catastrophe. We have never been so let down by politicians.

Just a wee reminder that NI voted with a solid majority to stay in EU. We were very aware of the implications of Brexit for us.
But for those glibly suggesting we become a united Ireland, you clearly aren't taking on board the strong feelings of culture and identity that permeates this place. All of course made toxic by the legacy of the Troubles. I lived my entire adulthood through this time. It was much worse than those of you in rest of UK can even begin to imagine. Terrible acts of horror by both sides. Not easy to forgive or forget.

The Irish are known for their friendliness but they have long memories.

Well, I suppose since leaving is most likely going to fail we may as well break up the UK and just be four separate countries. Just more states in the Federation of Europe as the French and Germans originally planned after the war. As Mr Tusk and Co intend. We are after all one of the milk cows they can’t afford to loose.

Well, I suppose since leaving is most likely going to fail we may as well break up the UK and just be four separate countries

Remaining is far less likely to see that happen.

And cheer up; we're likely to be long dead before a federated Europe happens (if it ever happens.) Our children might, in any case be happier with that than with being the 51st state of the federal USA....

Nope. I’m all depressed.

Hopefully Patrick Kielty will not be dismissed as just an expert spreading Project Fear, he is a brave young man as was his Father.

On another thread someone commended May's 'patient answers' to Marr yesterday. This is how she responded to his questions on the NI border: Patiently stonewalling, perhaps. She knows that we can't possibly avoid a hard border post Brexit unless we stay in the Single Market and the Customs Union (Norway option) and she has firmly ruled that out. She daren't tell the truth. It's contemptible.

wasn't CHURCHILL the creator of the original idea of a united Europe NFK I did believe he was the darling of English politics so surely he couldn't ever be wrong?

Short answer to that Paddyann is No. Churchills attitude was that we the UK should be with Europe but not of Europe. Try not to sneer too much, without this man and our brave service personal we could have been under Nazi Germany for many many years, which might just might have been worse than Westminster!

Churchill was the originator of the plan for a united Europe - he saw it was the only way to prevent wars.

Also, for those ( not on here) who confuse 'taking back control' and getting shot of the European Court of Justice (ECJ), the European Court of Human Rights was originally proposed by Winston Churchill and drafted mainly by British lawyers, the Convention was based on the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It was signed in Rome in 1950 and came into force in 1953.

Churchill was an imperialist, believer in Empire, as were many people of his generation. He certainly toyed with the idea of a United Europe but feared a federation! That's why he he finally concluded that this country should be 'with' Europe, but not 'of' it.

In the meantime, have you got yours:

www.facebook.com/TheIrishPost/videos/10157500737118452/

That's brilliant Jura !

Yep Jura. I have mine!

No point in asking brexiters for a solution to the Irish border question. There isn't one.

And now Arlene is saying that 'the Good Friday Agreement' is not sacrosaint - throwing water into burning oil it will end in tears, methinks- tragically (no hysteria - I use the term wisely and carefully).

Looks like I amy have been right - for once:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/02/brexit-eu-hits-out-irresponsible-uk-northern-ireland?CMP=fb_gu

watch this space ...

Judthepud2 - did you always have one - or did you have to search for a long lost grandmother to get it ?

A friend from England got hers recently because they have a secondary house in France. 'Where are you from?' they asked 'Londonderry' - he looked at her and quietly said I think we will leave the London out, shall we?'.

I live in Southern Ireland. No one wants a border as it will be hugely expensive to operate and will cause serious difficulties for business and agriculture.

The idea of uniting Ireland crops up frequently. However the Republic cannot afford the costs of Northern Ireland. NI is subsidised to a massive extent by the UK and the majority of jobs are dependant on UK subsidy. The violence from Unionists would also escalate. Even at the moment, parts of NI are virtually ungovernable and this would only get worse. We all want a united island but not at any cost and the economy of Ireland is still very fragile It has never really recovered from the crash. We are still one of the most indebted countries in the world.

I think,patcaf anyone with any sense can see things need to stay as they are with regards borders between the North and South .Anything else is visiting massive problems on the people of that island .I have strong ties to both sides of the border and I have seen at first hand the sectarian problems that are still there simmering under the surface.I think its probably to much to expect the Westminster clowns will sort it though,they are hellbent on destroying many parts of the UK because of their misguided Brexit...over two years and no solutions to any of the major issues .Couldn't make it up!!

Any politician who states "that the Good Friday Agreement' is not sacrosanct" for whatever party in the United Kingdom that person represents is not only putting at risk the peace in Northern Ireland but the peace and stability of the whole of Britain.

I believe the Brexit/Irish Border situation is now rapidly approaching the above.

It is in everybody's interest to keep the border open except Boris and his cohorts. When I last returned through Hollyhead I had to show my passport, presumably to prove I was not a Romanian migrant.
In practice it is going to mean some kind of customs union and parliament is not going to like that one bit, let alone the Tory party. The Irish really don't like the prospect of a border its against everything they have been working for over many years.
Its all very well TM repeating "no deal is better than a bad deal" , no deal could be much worse than we imagine, if a Norway deal is all that can be had we really would be better staying. I'm still betting on a second vote.