Northern Ireland and Brexit

The Irish question was one of my main reasons for voting remain.
I'm disgusted at how long this vital issue, has taken to filter through the Brexit dross and is finally being discussed.
As for the view that the Scots and the Irish should be permitted to leave the UK - that simply shows, if truth be told, that the poster just doesn't give a damn and is entirely taken up with the jingoistic Brexit pro-england approach that is so obvious on this and other threads.

Jura I have just got my Irish passport, long overdue. I had an Irish grandmother and an English grandmother but neither are needed. Born and bred in N. Ireland which automatically entitles me to dual nationality. And now I can still retain my EU citizenship too.

The absolute lack of concern shown for the prosperity and safety of the people of Northern Ireland by some of the prominent Leavers leaves me disgusted and in despair.

The future of Northern Ireland is more important than any poorly argued faff about “sovereignty”.

There was a bloody civil war in all but name raging in NI, and the deal that brought peace, increased prosperity in a place ravaged by poverty, and started moving a very divided community forwards is to be binned as if none of that matters.

The NI question is the single most important issue for the Brexit architects to resolve, bar none.

I entirely agree with your above post muffinthemoo. None of the hardline Brexitiers has come forward with any answers to the Northern Ireland problem either at the Conservative Party Conference, in parliament, or on this forum as they all spout the nonsense that "we should just walk away",

In the above, It is still the same old garbage of " lets all sick our fingers in our ears, our heads in the sand and jump off the cliff together and hope somehow we find a soft landing".

Well, that landing when it comes to Northern Ireland could very much cost lives in that island and here on the mainland of Britain. However, to the Brexitiers that is not something to be considered, its all "pie in the sky, rule Britania", and those that have money in investments move it into European Union countries as there will be more stability there following Brexit, or so states Jacob Rees Mogg.

What a crowd,

I wish that every time these brexiters say they're going to bring back control of our borders, the interviewer would ask them how that could be possible if there is no border with Ireland.

Oh yes, Varian- you would think that would be as obvious...

as asking how they will get back control of all the major utilities that have been sold to EU members, the Chinese, the Russians, etc, etc.

Yes jura2, it is the same as asking how the Brexitiers will achieve their goal of leaving the European Union without having a hard border in Ireland

That I believe is what this thread is supposed to be discussing, but once again no answers seem to be forthcoming

29th of September, so nearly a week, and not a single proposal has come forward, not a single measly one:

Just one question to any Leaver- a simple one.

Please demonstrate a viable solution for the Irish Border.

So, can we know say that this is because .... the obvious .... there is NONE whatosever.

The border with Ireland is the external border of the EU.

It has to exist in some form. It is not possible to leave a ‘borderless zone’ and ‘take back control of borders’ without defining where the borders actually are.

Take a red pen and draw around the UK on a map. That will be the new external border of the UK.

You can either draw along the current NI/ROI border, or put a line down the Irish Sea. But you have to join the border up somewhere.

The idea that the UK will have some incomplete external border as a fudge to the Irish issue is a complete non starter, because there must be some physical point where the UK ends and the EU begins.

Great analysis of the Irish border situation in your above post postmuffinthemoo. Regarding that, and as stated, there have been no solutions put forward by the Brexitiers on this forum in all the time this thread has been running. That I believe, demonstrates only too well the weakness of the whole Brexit position.

Outside of the debate on this forum, the Irish government seems to have "woken up" at long last to the fact that their economy has as much to lose as that of the UK in all this Brexit nonsense.

The above I believe could play a crucial role in the next two weeks as the EU Council of Ministers prepares for their meeting on Brexit later this month.

However, in parliament, we still have this Tory government unable to agree among themselves on any aspect of how Brexit should be carried out, and that situation may prevent Britain from achieving any gain from the Irish governments weakened stance.

It is a simple problem in a way; the solution is the hard bit. As a EU citizen, anyone can enter Eire and then travel to NI, as there cannot be a border between NI and the Republic. So, is everyone who does this to be allowed to get on the ferry and come onto the mainland which would be non EU? Are there to be passport checks at the ferry ports? Will Brits be able to wave their blue passports in the air and walk through while all the 'foreigners' get checked? Now that I have put it in very simple terms, I await a reply from Brexiteers, suggesting a solution. Best not hold my breathe though eh?

Now, for those 'Paddy passports' - where people are suddenly remembering their long lost relatives and getting their passport via said grandparent, etc.

Increasingly, I hear about people who have firmly voted for Brexit - and yet are now availing themselves of that loophole to avoid the consequences. Does anyone know of such cases- of Brexiters now getting their Paddy Passports?

No jura2 but bloody Nigel Lawson, arch Brexiteer has applied for residency in France where he has second home. As an indication of his merit, he also argued vehemently against climate change measures. Deluded in every way then.

I would like to know, re Nigel Lawson, how can he be permanently resident in France, pay his taxes in France, etc, etc, and still be allowed to take his seat in the Lords. Surely, residents abroad should not be allowed to do so.

Does anyone know the rules re the Lords?

jura2 I seldom agree with you but - I guess the H of L are not subject to the rules of the general public.

I think that he is in the H of L only because he has a British peerage. Where he lives is irrelevant; it's the peerage itself and its British origin which entitles him to his seat. He could live on the moon and still be entitled to sit in the UK H of L.

It does not seem quite 'Democratic', does it? If citizens live abroad for 15 years, they lose their vote- but Lords who have a massive influence on politics, can live on the moon and continue to do so?

I watched a programme about the "Troubles" late last night ,it was heartbreaking .God help those who may be facing a return to those situations and shame on Westminster for not keeping the Good Friday agreement in place to safeguard families like the ones shown .From BOTH sides of the divide they were left bereft and broken and we seem uncaring about repeating the whole sorry mess when we can keep the peace so easily.It is an uneasy peace but it has held and will if nothing is changed .

My sil is 49- and grew up on the border. We were walking in their small town in England, and a car backfired as it went past. He threw himself on the ground with his arms and hands around his head.

I just could not understand what was going on and I laughed- what he told me was NOT funny, at all. It was all so recent.

'I haven’t applied for one but I’m eligible for an Irish passport so I’ll probably pick one up. I also voted Leave in the referendum and would do so again, with redoubled enthusiasm. There's nothing hypocritical about collecting another passport. Firstly, I’m entitled to it and there might just be some advantage to be had e.g. using a slightly shorter queue to leave an airport. But by far the best reason is that my Remain friends will go utterly ballistic with indignation.

I’ll have to pick my time— perhaps in the middle of another heated discussion on the pros and cons of EU membership. "I don’t care any more if Brits won’t get preferential treatment applying for jobs in the EU," I’ll say. They’ll ask why not. I’ll reach into my inside pocket, pull out my Irish passport and give it a triumphant little twirl. Their faces! '

This is the kind of thing I am talking about as being vastly hypocritical. Can't give my sources, but a real case of someone who is living very comfortably abroad.

There is no solution to Ireland while the Unionists oppose any talk of unification , right or wrong that's the way it is. While there was an open border the problem went into remission but was not eliminated, it will return unless there is a customs union.

The was one final solution that was talked about a lot at the height of the troubles .
Tow Ireland out into the Atlantic and sink it!. There wasnt a large enough tug available.

Unless we want to turn the clock back 40 yrs an agreement is needed or the violence will resume.

Is it only me who thinks Arlene Foster looks like Les Dawson in drag?

No, but this is pretty irrelevant to putting forward solutions for the border. Have you got one to shrare, please?

#justsaying

Paw’s family are all entitled to Irish passports. I believe his younger sister is applying for one.
In the meantime Hattie has hers

share, even?