Northern Ireland and Brexit

Well I still can't read of any good reason why you did vote for it lemon but as long as you are happy eh? Why should anyone else's inconvenience distract you from your dream.

People with second homes do not go on 'holiday' for 1 week or 2, - they go to their second home, which happens to be across the border rather than in Devon or the Lakes ... and they go for many weeks at a time, even months- as they have chosen homes in the country where their pets are welcome


Leaving their 'first homes' in the UK empty for months at a time then, when there are so many homeless. Who amongst them, then, would dare criticise those rich foreigners who own homes in London but only visit for a few weeks at a time, when so many are homeless?

The Germans, Dutch and Swiss are picking up some amazing bargains for sure.
Please could you give us some details please jura - where, how much?
Some of us have European friends and relatives. We could tip them off!

If we do get a hard Brexit, which is by no means certain what you do will depend on your circumstances.
If you can support yourself and have good health there will be no reason to return to the UK in a hurry, you may well need a visa and maybe restrictions with pets.
If you are reliant on UK investment income, getting older and health not so certain, returning to UK makes sense, you probably would have returned in a few years in any case.
If you are working there won't be a problem but don't expect to get free health care or benefits, even an overseas nurse working for the NHS has to pay for health care today.

Lots of "ifs" there

'returning to UK makes sense, you probably would have returned in a few years in any case. '

why and how do you come to that conclusion? That was NEVER ever on our plans when we moved here. We can get much better care here, than in the UK, much better.

We can get much better care here, than in the UK, much better.
That's interesting - as you have said you have to partially pay through private insurance for your care, but think it is better than in the UK, do you think that would be the way to go for the health services here?

The healthcare in France is much better than the U.K. also and yes I do think partial paying is the way to go. The poorest people or those with serious life threatening illnesses do not pay.
The waiting time is much less and the number of medical staff in any facility is very high.

In regard to healthcare insurance, what happens to those on low incomes, low pensions or disabled etc who cannot afford to pay for such cover.

Do the abovr rely on charity hospitals as in the United States???

An interesting question Jalima, thank you.

Difficult always to compare apples and oranges.

In this case, I was thinking OAP care, rather than health.

If the UK decides that the NHS needs to be privatised - then, yes, the Swiss system could well be one to copy. Those on very low income get subsidies to pay for insurance- or if totally reliant on social care, it is paid for them.

OAP homes in our area are amazing- and cheaper than in UK. But we have NO intention of ever going into one- we can get help at home- much cheaper. Perhaps even in exchange for use of part of our home- for a family. The thought of living with only OAPs fills me with dread- would love younsters around, and of course my cats and dog. But this is another story altogehter....

Then - EXIT - one of the many reasons we want to stay here and have end of life choice.

Posts crossed grandad- so the answer is no- basic healthcare and OAP care is available to all- you can pay extra to get a private room (mind you, for my 2 knees, and OPs both operation, I was in single room, and OH in 2 men room- so why pay extra?).

If we did go into OAP home, we would have to pay for it 100%, then have to sell home when finance run out - State leaves you with about 20.000 each for your children to inherit, and takes all the rest.

In this case, I was thinking OAP care, rather than health.
Ah, I see, yes.

It is rather unfair to dismiss all of those with second homes as being wealthy and somehow not worthy of sympathy, it is not their fault that the housing market in parts of the UK is so out of control that young adults cannot buy their own home. We have our own, modest, home in the Home Counties, and had been considering, half seriously, selling up, buying a smaller place here and using the rest to buy a home in France or Spain, and then split our time between the two, alongwith our dog ( and her passport). Since the catastrophic result 2 years ago we have completely shelved our plans. Now, I know this is not earth shattering in the great plan, nor is the fact that my niece will no longer be able to visit her family in the UK for long trips, but all over the UK ( and Europe) there are people like us, ordinary people, whose life plans have been changed, or who have been massively inconvenienced because a small part of the electorate decided to use the Eu to give the government a kicking. And for what?

Exactly GillT - some people have second homes in the UK, some modest, some not at all. Some have no 2nd home, but massive top of the range main house, some I know have both ... Many in France have bought small very modest places for the location, etc. Just plain daft to accuse all second home owners of being wealthy and selfish.

In our case, we have a second home indeed - a small flat in a non-touristy part of the UK, which we love. It was part of the very careful planning, just 'in case' - as we felt it was massively important to have something to fall back on if all goes t*ts up for some reason. Never ever could we imagine what would happen with Brexit- that is for sure.

We have several friends who have bought in France, and 2 in Switzerland, very modest and in a cheap part (yes - it does exist) to retire to - but like you Gill- have had to cancel all plans due to uncertainty and due to exchange rate.

The irony of course jura2 is that some of the Brits living in Spain voted for Brexit, based on the crap carefully balanced stories they read in the Daily Mail, so are we to assume that there will be plane loads of elderly Brits coming back to UK with no money, having sold their homes for a pittance? If they voted to leave they can bu**er off as far as I am concerned! I saw a news report once, interviewing Brits in Spain, they voted for Brexit because UK was 'full of foreigners'..... you couldn't make it up, could you?

Well, yes, my sentiments entirely.

A recent report shows that France his starting to have the same problems as the UK with medical services:
www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2018/10/08/rendez-vous-medicaux-2-jours-pour-un-generaliste-7-semaines-pour-un-ophtalmologue_5366495_4355770.html

ps but how did we get onto this from the OP about Northern Ireland Brexit and the Irish border?

Most English Tory voters would be happy to see UK break up as price of Brexit, survey suggests - Politics live

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/08/labour-and-tory-mayors-unite-to-demand-they-take-back-control-of-regional-spending-after-brexit-politics-live

This is appalling. Whatever happened to the Conservative and Unionist Party?

And what would those Conservatives say when the unionists in Northern Ireland began attacking the British mainland for "selling them out"

As Jerry Adams stated a few months back "the gunman have not gone away, they have just gone quiet".

I have no answers, but I cannot understand how people who claim to be members of a Christian church, whether protestant or catholic, can use their religion as an excuse for their hatred of each other. The whole point of the Christian religion is we are told above all else 'to love one another as I have loved you'. Forgiveness is also required of every single Christian. The prayer we were given to use asks 'forgive us our sins as we forgive others'. Hatred and enmity have no part in Christian life, no matter how you have been treated in the past. It isn't easy, of course not, but we are promised that we don't have to go through it alone.

I have just spent the day in Coventry. Following the bombing of the mediaeval Cathedral in 1940, Provost Howard had the words ‘Father Forgive’ inscribed on the wall behind the Altar of the ruined building. The people of Coventry decided on reconciliation instead of hatred, they have developed close ties with Germany.

I especially liked the prayer for reconciliation which is prayed each week:

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

The hatred which divides nation from nation, race from race, class from class,
Father, forgive.

The covetous desires of people and nations to possess what is not their own,
Father, forgive.

The greed which exploits the work of human hands and lays waste the earth,
Father, forgive.

Our envy of the welfare and happiness of others,
Father, forgive.

Our indifference to the plight of the imprisoned, the homeless, the refugee,
Father, forgive.

The lust which dishonours the bodies of men, women and children,
Father, forgive.

The pride which leads us to trust in ourselves and not in God,
Father, forgive.

Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if that prayer was said in each school in NI each week, and in each Church?

The DUP is getting quite angry now- and Raab made a terrible mess of today in the House of Commons. He is totally out of his depth.

Rather unkind but the truth!
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2018/oct/08/steve-bells-if-arlene-foster-out-of-step-with-dancing-queen-may

Fennel Now can we look forward to the Conservatves and the DUP falling out? Do you suppose Arlene and Mrs May are negotiating how much more it will cost to keep the DUP on side?

oh to be a fly on the wall ;)